Episode 10: with Una Galyeva

Episode 10: with Una Galyeva
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00:17 None.
00:20 Hello PyPodcast,
00:24 Today we are very honoured to have Una with us.
00:27 Una, do you want to introduce yourself? Oh.
00:28 Still a human being.
00:32 She is a superstar in PyLadies Amsterdam.
00:35 She is doing everything for PyLadies
00:38 Amsterdam and I'll let you talk.
00:39 Hi everyone, I'm UNA.
00:41 I'm running apparently PyLadies Amsterdam for
00:44 Oh my God, like longer than six years.
00:47 No,
00:48 no, no way.
00:50 And the 7th is coming soon.
00:52 Apparently the seven years is coming
00:53 starting from May.
00:54 So OK, now I can officially say
00:56 7 years. Yeah.
00:58 Wow 7.
00:59 Years.
00:59 Seven years is like longer than my visa, so
01:03 that's a lot.
01:04 So I can assume and say that's now she went
01:08 to the basic school, you know.
01:12 Yeah,
01:13 yeah, if you think of, you
01:14 know, PyLadies is your baby, then yeah,
01:16 it's now, you know, in school and.
01:18 Sometimes it's feel like
01:21 I still try to distribute the load, but
01:24 sometimes it feels like this indeed.
01:26 Let's learn a little bit more about
01:28 yourself.
01:29 Have you been living in Amsterdam for a
01:31 long time?
01:32 Yep, I relocated to Amsterdam 11 years ago.
01:35 So
01:36 I think that was the love from the first
01:38 sight, you know? And it was
01:40 I talking about Amsterdam,
01:42 not about a person.
01:43 Unless you want to personalize Amsterdam of
01:45 course, or personificates I guess.
01:48 Not personalized or personific.
01:49 I think the Amsterdam has very unique
01:52 opportunities in the sense of meetup
01:54 saying, but at the same time it has a lot
01:56 of pros and cons. Pros.
01:58 There is a group of people who just
02:00 attended meetups just for the sake of
02:02 eating.
02:04 It's everywhere.
02:05 It's everywhere, not just Amsterdam, I'm
02:07 telling you.
02:08 Apparently, Yeah, apparently. And
02:11 it's really saturated.
02:13 It was saturated before COVID.
02:15 During the COVID it was less, let's say,
02:18 active.
02:18 After the COVID, it's saturated again.
02:20 Sometimes you have to make choices like
02:23 where do I want to go? Oh my gosh, There is
02:26 like 3 or 4 really interesting events and
02:28 they all happen at the same time and not
02:30 all the events making recordings and you
02:32 know, sometimes just like the information
02:34 in the states within.
02:35 So yeah, I think
02:37 for me it was really, really important to find.
02:41 I was not looking specifically for a
02:42 community.
02:43 I was it's more more like, you know, the
02:45 quest for knowledge.
02:47 And it was like, oh, by the way, like we
02:49 had a lot of events, but all the events are
02:52 talks, which is fantastic.
02:54 I do agree.
02:54 But at the same time, you after the whole
02:57 work day, you go to this talks and the
02:59 talks go through like direction One,
03:01 Direction two direction 3.
03:03 And like, at the end of the day, your brain
03:05 is struggling, you know, to, to get all
03:07 these concepts together.
03:08 So you're feeling that you start fuzzing
03:10 out on the talk #3 if it was your good day,
03:13 and if it was your bad day, you start
03:14 fazing out on the talk #1 And also a big
03:17 amount of talks are going about like, oh,
03:19 look at this cool feature.
03:21 Like just subscribe to a premium, you know,
03:24 and you're gonna get that.
03:25 Or look how some things I've done and like
03:28 when I start asking questions.
03:29 But like, what were your, you know, the
03:30 thought process? What is pros and cons like?
03:33 Yeah, you're saying that just use this
03:35 awesome library.
03:36 Fantastic.
03:36 That's how it's compared to others.
03:38 Like, why this? Why that?
03:41 But you were working in tech before you
03:42 moved to Amsterdam?
03:43 Right.
03:44 Oh yeah, yeah,
03:45 that's that's the thing.
03:46 I was already there.
03:47 I usually joking that I'm, you know, like
03:50 the the person who's there and not there at
03:51 the same time.
03:52 I'm usually trying to, let's say merge both
03:54 words and like if I look back, it's my
03:56 career.
03:57 I think I tried almost all.
03:59 I was only mentioning that I didn't try PhD yet,
04:03 but for the rest,
04:04 like working for myself, working for
04:06 someone else, starting my own company,
04:07 growing my own company, selling my own
04:09 company,
04:10 get into another one.
04:12 And by the way, my first job in the
04:14 Netherlands was an executive director.
04:16 Yeah, that's how I ended up here.
04:18 But then after that I was like, Nah, you
04:20 know, I'm just done.
04:21 I did some stuff for myself, but now I want
04:24 to do something for somebody else.
04:26 And that's how I start freelancing.
04:28 But I was really scared to start freelancing
04:30 in the Netherlands because I was like,
04:32 it's a small country in case I deliver
04:34 really shitty product.
04:37 Or really, should
04:38 you know what people gonna do?
04:39 OK.
04:40 Do you feel like it's it will close it down
04:44 opportunities If you
04:45 like you didn't do well the first time is
04:48 do you feel like it will close it down for you?
04:51 Yeah, it's like it's such a tiny country.
04:54 So basically the majority of the folks you
04:57 know them are just rotation of the brains
05:00 between like the big players
05:02 and why referring to the big players? I do
05:04 not mean funk companies, I mean just like
05:06 the the big players on the local markets,
05:09 whether it's like international companies
05:11 or local enterprises.
05:12 But the majority of them there are some
05:13 bunch of really like interesting unicorns,
05:15 for example.
05:16 And then they're basically migration as a
05:18 mention of the brain.
05:19 Like you go there, then they go there, then
05:22 when they fed up doing that, they go there.
05:24 So there is also like this consulting
05:26 world, which is like slightly different, but
05:28 it's almost the same I would say.
05:30 And and yeah, that's how you get it.
05:32 I was very, very like early in my
05:35 career.
05:36 I was actually considering moving to
05:37 Amsterdam and looking for a job there, but
05:39 I have been told that if you want to work
05:41 in a consultancy you have to speak Dutch.
05:43 So how's your Dutch?
05:46 I would say really "geth so"
05:52 I don't think that's the audience going to
05:53 pick it up,
05:55 at least the majority of the audience.
05:57 It's true in case you are aiming for like
06:00 very top senior positions, it's very, very
06:04 true because when you need to interact
06:06 directly with let's say C level, C minus
06:07 level stakeholders, if it's a Dutch
06:09 company, they will be Dutch.
06:10 If it's an international company with some
06:12 like offices here,
06:13 they also would be Dutch.
06:15 And somehow everyone here is bilingual,
06:17 but they prefer to speak Dutch.
06:19 And if you don't
06:20 get it,
06:22 you can lose a lot of,
06:23 you know, a lot of nuances.
06:25 That's that's true, But I wouldn't say that
06:27 it's true if you're not interacting direct
06:29 with stakeholders unless unless you're
06:32 joining some kind of
06:34 just outsourcing company that's, you know,
06:36 basically don't care about you.
06:38 They're just selling you per hour and
06:40 earning the margin on top of it.
06:41 But it's also like it's their business.
06:43 That's how they operate in this case.
06:45 They want to hire you as cheap as possible.
06:46 They want to sell you as
06:48 expensive as possible.
06:51 Yeah, it is what it is.
06:52 Yeah, it sounds really tough, but
06:55 that's what make me want to know more about
06:57 your journey when you
06:58 first moved to Amsterdam. Like,
07:00 do you already have a job or you
07:03 already have your own company? Like
07:05 so where were you at that
07:07 point in time?
07:09 Yeah. So when
07:11 at that point in time, I, I sold my company
07:13 and I was basically looking for a job and I
07:17 was looking for a job that will help me,
07:19 you know, to relocate myself.
07:20 And there's also like my partner was also
07:23 at that moment we're looking for a job.
07:24 So we're like, OK, so if we find then we
07:27 are moving because we didn't want, you
07:29 know, to just move.
07:30 We wanted to move with the good conditions
07:33 under good circumstances because I'm
07:35 originally not from,
07:36 let's say EU country, which makes it
07:38 usually very hot.
07:39 It's very hard, but it's way harder than if
07:41 you just like do transfer within EU.
07:43 Because like if you're from you, you can go
07:45 and work in any place.
07:46 You just need to do some registrations to
07:48 get some tax numbers and everything.
07:49 But for the rest, you're free to go.
07:51 Even if you have your passports.
07:52 You can go, for example, and work in
07:54 Scandinavian countries as well.
07:56 So you don't need to have visa that separate thing
07:58 unless it's Great Britain.
07:59 That's completely.
08:00 Sorry.
08:01 Yes, yes, I'm looking at you now like
08:03 Queen, Queen.
08:06 Actually, like we also take a hit.
08:08 So I mean who lose more?
08:10 Never know.
08:11 Yeah. So
08:12 I mentioned like that my first job in the
08:14 Netherlands was an executive director.
08:16 So it was basically a
08:17 service company.
08:19 You're doing a lot of things, but their
08:21 goal was to build the company was from
08:22 scratch, which was really valuable.
08:25 Because I get through all this, you know, I
08:27 get to experience bureaucracy first hand.
08:29 But I wouldn't say that it's a lot of
08:31 bureaucracy.
08:32 At least what I'm hearing, for example,
08:33 from the colleagues who live in Germany, it's
08:35 it's completely different story.
08:37 So I would say there is a bureaucracy, yes. I see.
08:40 Yeah, because
08:41 I also have a good friend who live in
08:43 Germany and you know, these two country I
08:45 think is the top 2 competing who have more
08:48 bureaucracy.
08:51 Yeah, something like I would say something
08:52 like that indeed.
08:53 And then I was like, OK, so yeah, which is
08:56 how the tech scheme looks like.
08:58 What can I do? What are the companies and
09:00 the Netherlands like some major players,
09:02 you know, like ASML
09:04 you have like Phillips, that's like they
09:06 were the majority of the folks are gone.
09:08 They have like okay, booking.com and like
09:10 this, you know, big dinosaurs.
09:12 Let's put in this way.
09:14 So and there are other options of course,
09:16 and there are
09:17 more local options. And
09:19 I was like, yeah, what should I do? And
09:20 then I was like, no, I want to go, I want
09:23 to feel freedom.
09:24 So I'm going to go freelancing, which was
09:26 really strange decision because it came with
09:29 some changes of the residence permits
09:32 by default, like if you're located in
09:33 specific capacity, you're not allowed to do
09:35 to work in for yourself.
09:36 So there are like a lot of things.
09:37 So I found a way to do that like legally
09:40 and officially.
09:40 And as I mentioned that back then, I was a
09:43 little little bits like afraid of
09:45 doing something on the local market because
09:47 I didn't know how rusty I am.
09:49 You know, rusty not in the sense that doing
09:51 things with Rust like in the opposite
09:53 direction,
09:55 not related to Rust language,
09:57 the pun intended joke.
09:59 So,
10:00 and I was like, yeah, where are you going
10:01 to go? And like where have friends, they're
10:03 going to help me.
10:04 Like I just want to deliver.
10:06 Good job, you know, and I don't want to
10:08 look for the clients or something.
10:10 I was looking for some
10:12 kind of low ending fruits.
10:13 And apparently the friends of mine, they
10:15 were like, oh, just, you know,
10:16 like if you're interested, it's like we're
10:18 working with the United States,
10:20 so we're working with American markets.
10:21 If you're interested, go there, you know,
10:23 go there.
10:23 I mean, stay here, but
10:25 go there and do some stuff. And
10:27 I was like, yeah, I was really, really
10:28 excited.
10:28 So basically for me legally, it was really
10:30 easy because my,
10:32 all my, let's say relationships were with a
10:33 local company,
10:35 which, you know, protect me from
10:36 everything.
10:36 So in case something happened with the
10:38 money or clients, it's not my problem, it's
10:40 their problem.
10:41 Like they were handling everything for me.
10:42 So I would say that was for Lancing, but
10:45 it's still like working for someone else,
10:47 but like with some freedom to say no to
10:50 specific clients and like, let's let's say
10:52 like that.
10:52 And that was funny because you working with
10:55 people online, there is huge time
10:57 difference.
10:58 That's where it caught my attention because
11:01 when we started doing meetings online,
11:03 people were surprised to know that I'm
11:06 female.
11:06 Somehow they were expecting just, you know,
11:09 another guy.
11:10 It's a cliche, but it's still, it's still.
11:12 And there was like, oh, are you? Oh,
11:14 we didn't expect this is like, what do you
11:16 mean by?
11:18 Oh my God,
11:20 I think, I think
11:21 people don't check LinkedIn.
11:22 But like, you know, at that time, right?
11:24 It's not like now people will check your
11:26 LinkedIn before talking to you. Oh.
11:28 Boy, yeah, I I think there is like, yeah, that's
11:31 like, who are you? I was like my
11:34 you're engineer, you know,
11:36 or
11:36 you
11:37 can.
11:37 You tell us about this freelancing job
11:40 specifically.
11:40 Like what do you do as a freelancer?
11:43 So there was 1 gig was pure data
11:45 engineering.
11:46 So basically you have
11:48 you do sensor fusion or a lot of sensor
11:50 data coming in, you need to process it very
11:52 sparse data and then you ship it to the
11:54 data scientist.
11:55 They're going to build different like time
11:56 series, like statistical and machine like using
12:00 different machine learning algorithms on
12:01 top of that.
12:03 That was like the first one gig.
12:05 It was approximately 4 or five months
12:07 and then I was dragged into the more, let's
12:10 say ML related gig.
12:11 Again, there are like data scientists and
12:13 they're struggling to put things in
12:14 production.
12:15 Could you help us to go there, You know,
12:17 set up some like bring some software
12:18 engineering practices in place.
12:19 Help us like with CICD pipeline
12:21 specifically for machine learning training,
12:23 introduce continuous training where it's
12:24 possible set up specific metrics and
12:26 threshold for monitoring.
12:28 And that was really interesting because at
12:30 that moment that was a very, very awesome
12:33 project.
12:34 I was working with self driving trucks and
12:36 that was like, whoa, that's where I learned
12:38 first time in my life what LiDAR is
12:40 before that, I have no clue.
12:41 Like that this thing that do this like
12:43 365°, like your
12:46 3D coordination position.
12:49 And then it's basically allows you, let's
12:51 say to see.
12:52 And then you can run on this like
12:53 combination of computer vision algorithms
12:55 together with all this, let's say a sensor
12:57 data that coming in like combination of that.
12:59 And you get like the, the full picture of
13:01 what's going on.
13:02 That I think was for me really, really eyes
13:04 opening
13:05 because you know, before that, like what's
13:07 the problem? You just say don't hit,
13:09 don't hit this
13:14 very cool.
13:14 And after that I jump on the different
13:17 things so I get him back to more like
13:18 maritime industry and that was the moment of
13:22 help to predict the best time for crew
13:24 rotation.
13:25 So you have like
13:26 crew who stays for a longer term on the
13:28 ship and when ship arrives to specific
13:30 coast, you need to take an account the
13:32 weather, taking account a nationality of
13:34 the crew that has to be rotated taking into
13:37 account visit conditions of the country.
13:39 They think they're gonna port at plus like
13:42 weather condition.
13:43 And I mentioned like condition also like
13:45 all the ocean.
13:46 How is it how it's like behaving, how it's
13:47 working? And then what is the probability
13:49 that the ship going to be at this port
13:51 versus that ports? What is the most, let's
13:53 say, optimal condition for rotation, which
13:56 can saves a lot of money or which can even
13:58 prevent rotation of the crew? For example,
14:00 visa regime is not
14:02 favorable.
14:03 Also, you get a lot of like repair teams.
14:05 So there are a lot of repairs that happens
14:07 as soon as the ship is moving.
14:09 So there are big repairs that you do in,
14:11 for example, in different types of docks,
14:12 but there are also repairs and go.
14:14 So imagine like like the folks that flying
14:16 with like this very excessive baggage and
14:19 then for example, they losing it back.
14:20 And the bag has like all the tools, like,
14:23 you know, like the tools, cost of the
14:25 tools, just like, yeah,
14:27 like
14:29 they were they were tags in it.
14:31 The bags was also secured because it's very
14:33 expensive.
14:34 But still, you know, it's like depends on
14:36 their company.
14:36 Like do they have like the specific
14:38 tracking? Do they have if the luggage is
14:40 lost, it's usually not a problem of our
14:42 company.
14:42 It's a problem of
14:43 handling company at the airports and the
14:45 majority of the cases it is what it is,
14:48 yeah.
14:48 It's simpler, complicated.
14:49 I think that's I never thought that you
14:52 need to like the way you describe this
14:54 managing, you know, ship crews as they port
14:57 because I, you know, I enjoy cruise ships.
15:01 Like I've only done it a few times, but it is
15:04 a very big production
15:06 to me.
15:07 Like managing the shipping cruise.
15:09 There was some
15:10 Netflix shows to show just how they run the
15:13 restaurants inside the cruise ship planning
15:17 meal or logistics.
15:18 Because once you're inside the ship, you
15:20 don't get to reload or something.
15:22 So now you're talking about the actual crew
15:24 management using, I guess as a software
15:27 engineer, you,
15:28 you write some program for that.
15:30 That's kind of fascinating.
15:32 Do you use Python for all?
15:34 Partially
15:35 like when it's possible, but you know, the
15:37 fancy is when I decided that I don't want
15:40 to do freelancing anymore and I just want
15:42 to work for a local company.
15:43 I went back to consulting because I
15:46 couldn't find a company that gonna satisfy,
15:48 you know, my needs.
15:49 And that like was awesome topics that I
15:51 would work at.
15:52 And that's how I joined the consulting.
15:54 Like the local consulting company, let's
15:55 say it was an outsourcing company.
15:57 It's still an outsourcing company, but they
15:58 also have like this separate department
16:00 called the TN Innovation.
16:01 That's where I landed and that's where I
16:02 get an opportunity to build whole things from
16:05 almost let's say from scratch.
16:06 And that's where I switch to working with
16:08 aircrafts.
16:08 So like now you can think about each
16:11 aircraft.
16:11 So how much food should we put in it? How
16:13 much water,
16:14 how much fuel, let's say based on the
16:17 amount of passenger that's right for for
16:19 registration, should we swap an aircraft?
16:22 You know how the operations of the airport
16:25 is going to run knowing what is expected
16:28 amount of passengers from, let's say from
16:30 the local air company.
16:31 So it's.
16:31 A random question.
16:32 Yeah, go on.
16:33 I have heard in my previous job that a lot
16:35 of, you know, air traffic planning is using
16:38 Prologue.
16:38 Is that true? Do you know or you don't
16:40 touch that part of craziness?
16:42 I touch this parts, I touch this part
16:45 because I would say that one of my latest
16:48 gigs was redesigning basically the whole
16:51 data in AI system for a very big fun
16:53 European company which is controlling
16:56 European sky.
16:57 Like there are a lot of things going on there.
16:59 They solving problems
17:01 that are not
17:03 common and they're solving very unique
17:05 problems.
17:05 That's why there is a lot of custom built
17:07 stuff because otherwise the way how the
17:09 information is shared, like how you can
17:11 parse it, which makes it very, very
17:14 difficult and completely different from
17:16 others.
17:17 You even can have like up to 12 languages
17:19 used for different components because what
17:21 they do, you know, the the funniest part, I
17:24 never thought about airspace like that.
17:26 They calculate airspace and they create
17:29 like cubes and they calculate the capacity
17:33 of each cube to flow through it.
17:35 And each cube is operated by
17:37 like ATC or a combination of cubes is
17:40 operated by ITC by this like the air
17:42 traffic control tower.
17:44 And basically when the aircraft is flying
17:46 the ATC, just passing it from one chunk of
17:49 cubes to another chunk of cubes.
17:51 Like next time I have a delay in my flight
17:54 I would think of you so.
17:55 Yes.
17:56 Wait, wait,
17:58 wait, don't think of me
17:58 think about the cubes.
18:00 That's.
18:00 Where?
18:01 Yes.
18:02 Because of the weather or because of the
18:04 other things.
18:05 But you know where you can hear that? So
18:06 for example, when the pilot says, oh sorry,
18:08 we just missed our time slot for departure,
18:11 that's exactly they missed their claimed
18:14 space in a cube.
18:16 Oh, yeah,
18:17 that's happened a lot.
18:18 Like when after, you know, the pandemic and
18:20 also during the
18:21 summer season, it happens a lot, especially with
18:23 some flight company that is really cheap
18:26 and start with an hour.
18:27 It happens a lot.
18:29 We're not going to pick up the topic of
18:31 Coldplay and they are
18:33 divorcing couples, right?
18:38 I was just looking at that the other day.
18:41 Yes,
18:45 it's
18:46 yeah.
18:46 Let's not gossip about it,
18:48 yeah?
18:49 Let's change the topic. Yeah.
18:50 What spark? You started PyLadies in
18:53 Amsterdam.
18:53 You know,
18:54 it sounds really strange, but the smells
18:58 and the sounds.
18:59 So I was attending a lot of meetups.
19:01 Usually I was mostly one or maybe like
19:04 there were two of us there
19:07 let's say, that can be identified as females if I
19:10 put in this way.
19:12 And the majority of the meetups starting
19:13 with guys drinking a lot of beer and eating
19:16 very bad quality pizza.
19:17 But like, I know it's still like free of
19:19 charge food, but it's like very, very bad.
19:22 And at that moment I was not drinking
19:24 alcohol at all.
19:25 So for me, it was really problematic
19:27 because I was smelling it and I was
19:29 smelling and the beer and the pizza and the
19:31 guys, I'm
19:34 sorry.
19:35 In the summer I can imagine it's
19:37 Really though, yes crowded places very hot, you
19:38 know it's not going to be nice.
19:40 Yeah. And I was like, what if there could be meetup
19:43 where it could be not about talks,
19:46 it would be mostly about doing still doing
19:47 something, doing some exercises like trying
19:49 out a learning new concept, not just
19:50 Like I wanted something that I can, you
19:50 watching a demo.
19:51 know, like run, it's runs on my machine,
19:53 so.
19:55 Or OK, or if you need some specific
19:55 credits, like to run it somewhere else.
19:58 And I wanted to have a space where I can
20:00 influence a bit the food and the drinks.
20:02 I was not saying that's like I am against
20:04 alcohol.
20:06 It's not about that.
20:07 It's more about it's OK to have alcohol,
20:09 but at the end during the networking part
20:12 and not during the event.
20:15 Because if you aim to do workshops, then
20:17 you know, that's something different.
20:18 So that was my idea and I'm really thankful
20:22 that that moment I meet another person who
20:24 was like, so if we both dissatisfied,
20:26 why not to start something new? And we're
20:27 like, OK, So what should we do? How we
20:28 should do it?
20:31 Like should we create a meetup group?
20:33 And then then what's where to
20:35 advertise it? I don't know, go to the
20:38 events and talk.
20:39 Oh, we have this cool idea, just go through it.
20:42 And there was like other any low hanging
20:44 fruits or something.
20:47 And next to it, I would say my desire was
20:49 to see more, let's say, female and
20:52 underrepresented groups on the stage, you
20:54 know, taking the spots and not just being
20:57 somebody's like, assistant or something
21:00 like that.
21:01 And I was like, yeah, maybe there's
21:03 something.
21:05 And then just like with a short discovery,
21:06 we noticed, oh, there was a PyLadies
21:08 Amsterdam chapter.
21:12 Unfortunately, they somehow like stopped
21:14 their activities in 2000
21:16 just
21:18 2014
21:19 Yeah, I guess something like that.
21:20 There was some folks running it.
21:21 So I really thankful that they started it
21:23 and we're like, oh, could we resurrect the
21:25 zombie horse, you know?
21:26 And that's how we started.
21:29 And what was really funny today when I was
21:31 chatting, sending DMs to Mariatta, I
21:31 scrolled down and I noticed my first
21:33 message to her like saying, hello, I'm
21:34 doing this.
21:36 I'm trying to get access to here and there.
21:38 Could you help me? Thank you for
21:40 understanding.
21:42 It was so
21:43 nice to see it.
21:45 Thank you. Yeah.
21:48 Yeah.
21:51 I
21:54 think that's the same.
21:54 I've heard these stories a lot, like
21:56 everything you said, you know, like we all
21:58 hear, we want to see more people who we can
21:59 relate to, you know, want to see more women
22:00 in the community.
22:03 There are
22:04 lots of PyLadies these chapters worldwide who
22:04 just, you know, people started it, maybe
22:05 they have other priorities afterwards.
22:06 And then it got dormant.
22:08 And I'm really glad to hear that, you know,
22:11 you picked it up and then you run it and
22:14 you have your own vision of, you know, kind
22:16 of community you want.
22:17 I think that's really good to hear.
22:18 I'm more used to hear of people
22:21 complaining,
22:23 like saying there should be something for
22:25 me here, Like, I want an event like this.
22:27 You should be running an event the way I
22:29 want it.
22:31 But yet they're not running it themselves.
22:33 They're just saying you should run
22:34 conference like this, this and that.
22:36 But when we ask them, why don't you help
22:38 out? Why don't you run it? They say no, I'm busy.
22:40 Of course
22:42 So
22:44 I'm really thankful that you are actually
22:46 doing it.
22:46 There is a lot of people who are telling me
22:49 it's not going to work like workshops, it's
22:50 impossible to do.
22:52 I mean like workshops, they have to prepare
22:54 first.
22:57 You need to find someone who wants to give
22:58 it like free of charge.
22:59 It's a lot of work.
23:01 You need to just like with a lot of like trial and errors to
23:02 get, you know, what's the
23:04 like, how to do it.
23:07 Like what are the formats that going to
23:08 work, what's going to work, what's going to
23:10 work? And but everybody will tell me it's
23:11 impossible.
23:13 And especially if you want more like
23:14 underrepresented groups running the
23:15 workshops. No,
23:16 you know, no way.
23:17 Like it's not gonna work.
23:19 But what I learned, you know, the compound
23:20 effect, that's what works.
23:21 So if you go in no matter what, and if
23:23 you're delivering, people start noticing you.
23:24 People start talking about you.
23:25 And what is for me is really, really eye
23:26 opening.
23:28 Before COVID, all the events were in
23:29 person.
23:30 We were not doing recordings because it was
23:31 too hard to set up.
23:33 Everything back then was like, oh, no, you
23:35 know, just you're just doing it.
23:38 And you constantly was looking for
23:41 sponsors.
23:43 Like who's going to pay, you know, who's
23:45 going to host, who's going to feed
23:46 us,
23:48 let's say in our workshop givers and
23:49 workshop takers.
23:51 And that was constant like, oh, there was a
23:52 list of companies.
23:54 We tried to reach out to the big companies.
23:56 They say no because they were more
23:57 interested in like events that's going to
23:58 attract 150 people versus event that
24:00 attracts 60 people because we have this 60
24:02 people Max capacity for in person events.
24:03 Otherwise for the workshop, it's really
24:05 hard to handle.
24:07 If you want to help, if you want to support
24:09 people, then you know that's not going to
24:10 happen.
24:12 Was more than 60.
24:14 At least that's what we learn and always like.
24:15 As soon as COVID started, we didn't stop
24:18 when a lot of communities just closed or
24:20 shut it down.
24:22 We just switched online and we start
24:24 experiencing the beauty of doing things
24:25 online because that's where we realize, oh,
24:27 by the way,
24:28 in case there is no one to host you, you
24:29 can host yourself online.
24:30 And then the people are saying, no, online
24:32 is not gonna work.
24:34 People not gonna show up for the events.
24:36 You know, there's, I was like, look, if
24:37 we're just doing online events, we now have
24:39 a capability of recording it.
24:41 So now you're recording it and there's also
24:43 a video record of it.
24:45 Although there are still a lot of ads on
24:47 YouTube.
24:49 And notice if you add in time stamps, then
24:51 it slightly decreased the amount of ads
24:52 that you get because it's also correlated
24:54 to a lot of factors like do you have like
24:55 paid ads or whenever we don't,
24:58 we don't use that.
24:59 So in this case, we just you just get like
25:01 general ones.
25:02 You keep repo open.
25:04 Of course, some materials could be
25:04 outdated.
25:06 So we usually encourage people if you try
25:09 in our workshop, something doesn't work,
25:11 please open PR, you know, just do that.
25:13 So you're going to help yourself and you're
25:14 going to help others because you know, the
25:15 methods got deprecated.
25:17 Other things are going to happen to the
25:18 materials.
25:19 For example, we were heavily using called
25:20 Mini-conda in the beginning just for the
25:21 setup and everything.
25:22 Then we switch to poetry, then we switch to uv.
25:24 So like we also like migrating stuff, but
25:26 we couldn't migrate, migrate everything.
25:28 But yeah, I think that's was the beauty of it.
25:29 And then after COVID,
25:30 like as soon as you can do more stuff, we
25:32 basically switch to we're not looking
25:33 specifically for anyone to host our
25:35 workshops, company usually reaching out to us.
25:37 If no, no one reaching out to us, then
25:38 super simple like we just do online.
25:41 And it also help you to get workshop givers
25:43 from different countries as well.
25:45 So that's also the beauty of that.
25:47 These are all
25:49 very good advice, yeah.
25:52 I remember last here at PyData Amsterdam
25:54 when I was at the booth.
25:56 So there's a booth for PyLadies.
25:58 And then she's asking every lady that she
26:01 talked to.
26:04 You want to give a workshop? And this, this is.
26:06 Yeah,
26:08 this is like stuck in my head.
26:10 Yeah.
26:11 I.
26:13 Think, you know, really good,
26:15 Yeah.
26:16 I think what's stuck in my head, last year
26:18 I was at EuroPython, so it was like it's PyLadies booth
26:20 and I think I had, like, a 4:00 flight in the
26:21 morning, something like that.
26:23 So I was not in my best mood.
26:24 So I came and that was like my analytical
26:26 me in the full force, which is not really
26:27 compatible, you know, with human beings
26:27 around.
26:28 And I remember that I just a storm to the
26:29 booth and it's like like we have a PyLadies
26:31 we're doing this.
26:34 Oh, and PyLadies Amsterdam doing
26:35 workshops and
26:39 if you're gonna put a counter how much time
26:40 I mentioned workshops by the end of EuroPython.
26:43 I think everyone does. That's
26:46 crazy
26:48 lady that's talking about workshops.
26:50 Oh my God.
26:50 I think it's really good to hear your
26:53 experience.
26:55 As
26:55 you know, I'm one of the people who
26:56 administer the chapters
26:58 for PyLadies is basically whenever someone say
27:00 I want to start PyLadies, I'm the one
27:04 giving the initial like access, creating
27:06 their account and everything.
27:08 I think there's a lot of people they want
27:14 to start a group, but they don't know how
27:15 to or they don't know what it entails.
27:17 Maybe, you know, some people think I just
27:18 open a meet up account, but there's a lot of,
27:19 like you mentioned, like you need to
27:21 outreach, you need to ask people to come
27:23 and speak, right, giving workshops and
27:25 figuring out what's a good format or not.
27:27 So I think it will be good to share all of
27:30 this experience with people like. Yeah.
27:31 You know, if I may to add what's really
27:33 interesting, my goal is not to create
27:35 workshop givers.
27:38 That's not my goal.
27:40 My goal is to encourage people to try it out
27:43 realize whether it's hard, not hard, like
27:45 it doesn't matter.
27:47 But then I was constantly asking myself why
27:50 I'm doing this, you know, what's the
27:52 purpose of running it for so many years?
27:55 Why didn't you know? There was like a lot
27:58 of changes in other like organizers.
28:00 We also, by the way, we keep our team
28:04 really, really small.
28:05 So the biggest amount of people we used to
28:06 have, it was 3.
28:10 That was the biggest amount.
28:12 And now like there are again, two of us
28:13 so far.
28:15 So I'm happy to see that our workshop
28:17 givers now speaking at the conferences.
28:18 And I think that's for me the best.
28:20 We, even though they can, for example,
28:23 speak even for local events, I'm already
28:25 happy with that.
28:25 It gives them confidence that they can, it
28:27 gives them confidence that
28:28 you can do that.
28:30 And you know, there is nothing weird about that.
28:32 And to lure people to do that, I'm usually
28:32 talking about two options.
28:36 I'm saying option number one, you're
28:38 working with some specific Python library,
28:40 a specific concept you work in every day.
28:43 For sure.
28:45 There are a lot, like a lot of tricks up on
28:46 your sleeve, sleeves upon your trick, it
28:48 doesn't matter.
28:50 Butter with butter.
28:51 So you probably know something that other
28:54 people don't.
28:57 So just share it.
28:58 Like even though if you're working with
29:00 pandas, I mean like there are so many
29:03 things that you can do.
29:05 Like there are so many like how you handle UTC.
29:06 I mean, there are a lot of things and
29:08 people do not realize that.
29:09 So you're usually saying focus on something
29:10 that you're doing every day and just share
29:11 what you can share.
29:14 Of course, like protecting sensitivity of
29:15 the data of the task.
29:15 If it's like intellectual property and
29:17 everything or your
29:20 employers
29:21 doesn't allow you to share something, fine.
29:24 But from the other side, I'm saying maybe
29:26 there is something on your bucket list that
29:27 you never dare to try and you never had
29:29 time for that.
29:31 And then if you can tap into that
29:32 potential, it's like you can try it and
29:33 then you can run it and then you can
29:35 upskill people that.
29:36 And by the way, if you also have some kind
29:38 of, I don't know, like performance or
29:38 whatever called stupid plan on your work
29:41 and you can also add it there.
29:44 So where basically you will be allowed even
29:47 to use your working hours for that. So
29:49 it's like win-win situation for everyone and
29:49 somehow it worked so far.
29:51 It definitely have been helpful for me as well.
29:53 And I totally agree.
29:54 Like even in the beginning, I just
29:56 I didn't think public speaking is something
29:58 I could ever do.
30:00 At least when I first came to one of my
30:03 earlier tech conference, one of my first
30:04 PyCon like I was really impressed to see a
30:06 lot of women speaking.
30:08 Before that, another conference I've been
30:11 to, it was very commercial.
30:13 The speakers are all
30:17 CEO or CTO's or something very high up.
30:18 I don't see normal people like me speaking
30:21 on stage. So I
30:23 I just thought that you must be a professor
30:24 or CEO to speak at conferences.
30:27 But it's not, at least not in the Python
30:29 committee and definitely not in the PyLadies community.
30:31 So I do feel it is the purpose of this
30:32 community to provide that space and you
30:35 should take it.
30:36 Yeah.
30:38 And, and I think you just like, you know,
30:41 give away my secrets, just like that's my
30:44 motivation of,
30:46 you know, I love giving workshop because
30:49 like I get it as an opportunity to really
30:54 like strengthen what I already know or
30:57 maybe I know a little bit, but I want to
30:59 know more than after I learned it then
31:00 because I know how to explain it to other
31:03 people.
31:05 So it's like,
31:06 you know, I think it's a very good like
31:06 learning opportunity for whoever is like
31:08 giving the workshop as well. Yeah.
31:10 Yeah.
31:12 And it's not only this.
31:14 I think what for me is really, really
31:16 important.
31:18 I want to recreate your current working
31:20 situation in the room.
31:22 So what do you mean by that? Like at least
31:24 like our chapter, that was our decision
31:25 that we allowing anyone doesn't matter.
31:26 Like whatever, you know, the society, like
31:27 put what type of labels on them.
31:29 So basically, if you're interested in if
31:31 you're working with Python and you're
31:31 interested in this particular topic, join us.
31:33 If not, no, you know,
31:35 really simple.
31:36 But the workshops would be given.
31:39 So we have at least 12 workshops per year.
31:41 So at least 11 workshops would be given
31:43 predominantly by females or transgenders.
31:44 other different options that exist
31:47 nowadays? Let's put it this way.
31:49 So like, that's the power.
31:51 And it's really funny to see people when
31:52 you're talking to them and they were like,
31:54 oh, you know, I can give workshop.
31:56 I was like, yes, I do agree you can give a
31:57 workshop.
31:58 We have only one slot for you per year.
32:00 Otherwise, if you don't do any big
32:02 contributions to the community, you
32:05 wouldn't be given this slot.
32:08 So which means you need to pair up with
32:11 your female or other colleagues and let's
32:12 them run the workshop.
32:14 Oh, we don't have senior women, OK,
32:17 even as junior women give her space to to
32:18 run a workshop and just be there.
32:20 Not as somebody who stand in front of her.
32:21 No, as her shadow.
32:22 Like, tried it.
32:24 And I think for me, the funniest part was
32:26 to see in our first workshops where in the
32:28 room were only like, two or three guys and
32:30 one of them, you know, walked toward me.
32:32 It's like, now I do understand.
32:35 How does it feel now? I don't understand.
32:36 I've never, ever been in room with such a
32:39 big amount of, like, female engineers.
32:41 So what I meant by saying before that I
32:43 want to recreate
32:46 what you're going to see in the workplace.
32:47 That's why we are open for everyone.
32:48 So usually if you look at our workshops,
32:51 it's really mixed.
32:54 So the guys there is like the females and
32:56 other and I really enjoy it because what I
32:59 didn't liked for with a lot of female
33:01 communities, they keep you in a bubble,
33:03 they keep you in a bubble.
33:05 Sisterhood supports everything, but it's
33:07 not real life.
33:10 I just want to prep you for the real life.
33:12 Yes, it would be not easy, but at least you
33:13 know how to find your sponsors, you know
33:15 how to find your allies, you know, like how
33:17 to build your career up, how to manage up
33:18 people if you're gonna work with different
33:19 And I had some experience like with the
33:21 pure female communities, which I really
33:23 didn't like.
33:26 And that's the reason why I said I'm
33:28 creating an inclusive community with some,
33:29 you know, with some they'd say remarks.
33:31 With some adjustments.
33:33 Yes,
33:35 yes, yes.
33:37 I still think that I do agree with you, but
33:39 I think that, you know, there are different
33:42 purpose of this kind of
33:44 underrepresented
33:46 kind of focus group.
33:46 I think one of them is
33:49 like what you said, I think it's beautiful,
33:51 but I think if someone want to have a more
33:52 kind of, you know, support network, that's
33:54 also OK too.
33:56 But remember like maybe you should form
33:58 this group to join the majority group so
34:00 you can integrate as well.
34:01 I think the only part which we usually do
34:02 not cover.
34:04 So we usually do not cover something for
34:06 complete beginners.
34:09 We did some events in the past, but then we
34:10 switch fully to more, let's say mature folks.
34:11 So in this case, if they are complete
34:13 beginner, we
34:15 sends
34:17 folks to the
34:18 other communities that exist that are more
34:20 and more, let's say better suitable for
34:22 complete beginners.
34:23 If you just start working, for example,
34:26 with any programming languages, Python is
34:27 your first or if you switch it from another
34:30 one to Python
34:31 or vice versa.
34:33 So in this case we do redirect them to
34:36 other places where they can find
34:37 information because like for beginners
34:38 there is a lot of things.
34:39 Things you can send people to us HumbleData
34:40 because we are absolute beginner focus.
34:42 We do.
34:44 We also going to do this for Pydata
34:45 Amsterdam by the way, this year.
34:46 Yeah, nice. So.
34:48 This is going to happen as well, yes, but
34:50 that's our focus.
34:51 I usually say it's like, you know,
34:52 community by practitioners for
34:55 practitioners or for practitioners by
34:56 practitioners.
34:58 I think that's good.
34:59 I think that's good that you found what
35:01 kind of status that meetup is, like, what
35:04 purpose it is, what benefit it can give to
35:05 the members.
35:06 I think it's beautiful.
35:09 No, I think that's actually important for
35:10 you to define what you want out of your
35:12 community.
35:13 Like you can't just be doing everything
35:14 just for the sake of doing it.
35:16 You need to have a vision, priorities.
35:18 Yeah.
35:19 Do you have anything that you really want
35:19 to talk about that we didn't cover? We can
35:21 do that.
35:23 I think yes, one topic that I really want
35:26 to touch upon, there's like the
35:27 recruitments.
35:28 I just want to add something about.
35:30 OK, please. Yeah,
35:33 the first, first thing first, like I
35:34 finally got I I signed an offer today, so
35:36 that's finally.
35:37 Oh, congratulations. New journey.
35:39 Yeah, that was a long, a long, a long, long
35:40 journey. Yeah. So.
35:41 That's about it, yeah.
35:42 One thing that I want to point out and
35:44 that's where things gets really, really
35:45 weird is when you're looking for a very top
35:47 level positions and that's where the rubber
35:48 hits the ground.
35:49 So before that I was privileged not to,
35:51 let's say looking for a job.
35:52 The jobs were looking for me.
35:54 So I was usually, you know, they were that,
35:56 yeah, it doesn't matter like what I was
35:58 doing whether it was my company or not my
36:00 company somehow I like organize space
36:02 around me in such a way that people start
36:03 reaching out.
36:04 So that was my reality for I would say the
36:06 last 20 years.
36:08 So I again, I was privileged to, you know,
36:13 to, to build that.
36:16 And when people are saying, oh, you know,
36:17 now around the layoffs and everything, I
36:20 was like, thankfully never hit by layoff.
36:22 I have never experienced it because I was
36:23 always feeling that something is going on.
36:25 So I was usually switching gears before the
36:27 layoffs were happening.
36:28 Just say that's just like my I don't know what.
36:31 Call it six sense or stupid sense.
36:33 Instinct.
36:33 Yeah,
36:36 so I had some personal changes.
36:37 That's the reason behind like the selling
36:40 house and everything. And
36:41 apparently
36:42 I was working for myself and I went to chat
36:44 with my bank.
36:47 So I will need the mortgage for like parts
36:49 of the sum.
36:52 So like can I get it and whatever like or
36:54 can I move the mortgage that I have in the
36:55 house to that? Like it's, they call it like
36:57 overbrugging, which means like over
36:59 bridging, which I really like.
37:00 Like the whole term basically idea was if
37:01 you're working, if you're working for
37:04 yourself in the Netherlands is possible,
37:06 but you would not be given a mortgage
37:09 unless you have three years of operations.
37:10 And with my company, latest company, only
37:12 one year of operations, which means that I
37:13 need to return to the workforce.
37:16 So basically I need to get to work for
37:16 someone else because like if you want to
37:19 get a mortgage, if I want to live. And the
37:20 reason like why I'm given when want to take
37:23 a mortgage, why just not to rent.
37:25 The prices of taking a mortgage is 2 times
37:27 lower versus renting.
37:29 And that's the difference and the market is crazy.
37:30 Of course I can go to smaller village,
37:32 leave Amsterdam.
37:34 It's always the case.
37:36 The problem is in the smaller village,
37:38 there would be the same price, but you
37:41 get more square meters.
37:43 I don't need more square meters.
37:44 That's the thing.
37:46 So getting back, sorry, staying on track.
37:48 I have to find a job basically like I have
37:50 to work for someone else.
37:52 I have to get a permanent contract or like
37:55 a temporary contract with some things next
37:57 to it to get a mortgage or to extend my
37:59 mortgage.
38:02 So I started my search.
38:03 It was in May.
38:04 I started my search in May.
38:06 So I was really, you know, like I'm OK,
38:08 I'm, I'm going to read descriptions.
38:09 We're going to see what's there.
38:11 So the positions I was heading for were
38:11 like head of director of artificial
38:13 intelligence.
38:15 So I was applying for different companies. So I
38:16 like choose three.
38:18 I was really, you know, like picking out
38:20 what I where I want to apply.
38:22 I, I applied there and guess what, nothing
38:23 like completely nothing.
38:25 I was like, hmm,
38:26 OK, maybe, you know, if we assume that a
38:27 lot of recruiters and the enterprises using
38:29 AI tools now, then let's use AI again to,
38:30 to, to apply.
38:31 So I generated a batch of things tailored
38:33 per each use case, whatever, I send it
38:35 nothing.
38:36 And I was like, what I'm doing wrong? I'm
38:38 already like, there are two weeks in the
38:39 process and nothing comes out like how
38:41 it's even possible.
38:43 And then one smart person told me, you
38:45 know, just take a batch and do batch a
38:46 apply literally
38:47 Of course you can go, we are like false,
38:50 you know, who can refer you and blah, blah, blah.
38:53 But do batch because in case start like
38:56 treat it as a funnel and then, you know, as
38:57 you go, go, go pick up.
39:00 And I was like, yeah, but it's not what I
39:02 wanted.
39:03 That's not what I want to do Just go.
39:05 So I create one batch dedicated to the
39:07 position of this like director, head of
39:10 artificial intelligence, and I created the
39:10 second batch for
39:12 ML staff engineer or AI staff engineer
39:15 or principal engineer or something like that.
39:17 And I start applying.
39:19 So here I started this traction.
39:21 And the finest part was the first screening calls.
39:24 The screen calls were like the first
39:26 question in the Netherlands is what's your
39:28 salary expectations? They usually said like
39:29 put your salary expectations in the form,
39:30 even in the recruitment form.
39:31 That's where I were testing their
39:33 front end and back end
39:35 by putting minus one, zero, 0.5
39:37 You know,
39:38 like everything.
39:41 Like let's,
39:42 let's.
39:43 Let's try how it works.
39:45 So the funniest part is I'm usually try to
39:47 jump in front of this question from
39:49 recruiter, because usually the first who asked
39:51 this question gets the better questioning
39:53 position at least at the Dutch market.
39:55 Let's put in this way, although it was
39:57 applying for a lot of EMEA remote
39:58 positions.
40:00 So I was like, OK,
40:03 let's do that.
40:05 And I usually starting OK, So what is the
40:07 expected salary range like I'm asking
40:08 specifically for range because it gives
40:09 them freedom, you know, to go from where
40:10 and just to show me the boundaries.
40:14 So then we can discuss later like how it's
40:16 gonna work.
40:18 The funniest part is there was a lot of
40:20 really top level positions with salary
40:22 which were below like even like senior
40:23 engineer positions.
40:25 And I was like, I'm sorry, like with this
40:26 responsibility, like why? And then
40:27 you get really weird questions.
40:28 There's like, why do you need so much money?
40:30 Why not?
40:33 I would, I would try to answer the
40:34 question.
40:36 It's like I want to donate to the Python
40:38 community.
40:40 That's why I need money.
40:40 Come on.
40:43 Like, yes,
40:45 maybe, maybe that's a good question.
40:48 Like good answer.
40:49 I don't know.
40:51 Like that's
40:54 that's the reason people work to get money,
40:56 Jesus and.
41:01 I was like,
41:02 oh, you know,
41:04 you know, And it's like you're working free
41:04 of charge.
41:06 It's like, no, it's like,
41:07 strange.
41:08 Why should I work?
41:09 Yeah.
41:11 Yeah, they pay you by Bitcoin, No.
41:12 By beautiful eyes,
41:13 Yeah. Yeah.
41:14 So, like, but to cut the long story short, I
41:15 ended up, like, at the end of the funnel with four
41:19 companies.
41:20 And then I did another twist.
41:21 When I was in the process with these
41:22 companies, I was telling them directly that
41:24 you are not the only one.
41:25 So you know, we can play silly games and
41:26 said, yes, of course, you're the only one
41:27 company I ever ever dreamed to work for. Sure.
41:28 Fine. Right.
41:29 So I was telling them and it's really
41:31 interesting to see the reaction.
41:35 Some of them were like,
41:36 you know, it's not good that you're saying that.
41:38 I was like, yeah, I know it's not good.
41:40 But because we are on the final stages, I
41:41 want to be clear.
41:43 That's like I expected
41:44 offers coming in and I'm gonna
41:46 surprise, surprise.
41:47 I'm gonna compare the offers, surprise,
41:50 surprise.
41:51 And I'm gonna ask what I want, you know? So
41:55 that's the thing.
41:55 Company are expecting people to be like
41:57 lying on Tinder right? Like I only have eye
41:59 on you.
42:01 Like, no, that's
42:03 of course
42:04 people are swiping on the time, right? Like it's
42:06 just so funny.
42:07 Sorry,
42:09 continue. But then you know, the funniest parts.
42:10 So the week 1358 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,840 one of the companies they were
42:13 there was some like holidays and they
42:14 basically like they dropped the ball.
42:16 So I didn't hear anything from them like
42:17 for three weeks.
42:19 Now they came back to me like, oh, let's
42:21 schedule an interview.
42:21 And I was like, OK, let's schedule.
42:22 And then I was like, oh, sorry, like please
42:25 cancel the interview because I already like
42:30 already have offers.
42:31 Although it's a final interview, but it's
42:32 like an interview with C level folks.
42:32 I don't want to rob their of their time.
42:34 You know that's.
42:35 That's it.
42:38 Beat them all.
42:39 I'm sorry.
42:41 No. Yeah.
42:43 And then the question would be, you know,
42:43 when they're gonna look how we lost this
42:45 candidate at the ends they they would be,
42:46 oh, we lost this candidate because of
42:48 competition.
42:50 No, you didn't lose this candidate because
42:52 of competition.
42:53 You lost this person because you were not
42:54 responsive for three weeks.
42:57 And like, I need to eat.
42:58 Sorry, the girls gotta eat, you know?
42:59 Yeah,
43:00 very interesting.
43:00 I felt the culture of hiring is somewhat
43:01 different.
43:02 I'm in the North America and like we, I, we
43:03 went through the same thing.
43:05 When I apply for a job,
43:07 I have to apply for like 10 different
43:09 companies and maybe I get interviewed for
43:10 one or two, right? And it's the same thing,
43:11 but something's different is like, I mean,
43:12 it's definitely OK for me to say, yeah, I
43:14 they will ask am I interviewing for other
43:17 companies? Like I will say yes,
43:18 like especially if you, when you say you're
43:20 hiring, you're interviewing for higher
43:21 level position
43:22 That means you know you have lots of skill, but
43:25 you you can a lot of people want your skill.
43:26 You can ask them, like, are you only
43:29 considering one candidate? No.
43:30 So yeah,
43:32 why not? It's like, you know, give and
43:34 take, right?
43:36 Yeah, it's both ways.
43:38 It's both ways.
43:40 Yeah.
43:43 So yeah,
43:45 that's basically what I wanted to share.
43:48 For me, it was really surprise.
43:51 First, it was like a lot of questions like
43:53 why do you need the salary? Like why do I
43:54 need a salary?
43:57 Come on.
44:00 You, you can try asking kindergarten's
44:02 children and they would also give you a
44:04 very reasonable answer. You. Yeah,
44:05 I mean.
44:07 Yeah,
44:07 yeah.
44:09 And the second one is like when you're like
44:10 get into the talk, like when you get into the ends.
44:10 They usually also like the, the, the
44:11 recruitment process is not very clear.
44:13 I'm usually asking about the structure.
44:14 And usually they don't have a proper
44:16 structure for such positions.
44:18 It goes like, oh, we're gonna have three
44:20 interviews and that's it.
44:21 And then you ended up having nine interviews.
44:24 That's the story is.
44:26 It like a reality show? Yeah, yeah.
44:28 You know, like interview from hell.
44:28 Yeah, you, you'll be like, excuse me?
44:29 Not the Squid Game.
44:29 You have
44:31 so many rounds.
44:32 Yes, ladies.
44:33 Yeah, that's a journey.
44:35 I'm happy.
44:36 That's like, I do hope for the right one
44:38 and like we will see.
44:39 I'm really impressed by like you just kind
44:40 of like have the mindset of like, if I want
44:42 to work for myself, I can work for myself.
44:42 If I need a job because of the mortgage, I
44:44 can have a job.
44:44 I think this is a resilient that it can
44:46 inspire a lot of.
44:50 People, I was watching this TV show on
44:52 Netflix. It's a
44:56 Indonesian
44:57 movie home sweet loan.
44:58 It's like also a journey
45:01 of a woman like she wants to be independent
45:01 from her family.
45:03 She wants to have a piece for herself, a
45:03 property by, you know, working for herself
45:05 by like she wants to work and
45:07 in order to
45:09 qualify for mortgage.
45:11 So like when you talk about this, it
45:13 reminds me of that movie.
45:15 Very interesting.
45:15 Well, thank you so much, Una and Cheuk.
45:18 Thank you everybody for listening.
45:19 Enjoy the episode and we'll talk to you
45:21 next time.
45:24 Bye bye.

We interviewed Una Galyeva.

With over 19 years of experience in Data and AI, Una Galyeva held various positions, from hands-on Data and AI development to leading Data and AI teams and departments. She is a driving force behind PyLadies Amsterdam, a Microsoft MVP, AI4ALL Advisory board member, and Head of Artificial Intelligence.

In this episode, Una shares her journey of relocating to Amsterdam, navigating the tech industry, and building inclusive communities. From freelancing challenges to leading innovative workshops, Una offers valuable insights on career growth, and fostering diversity in tech.

Be sure to listen to the episode to learn all about Una’s inspiring story!

Topic discussed

  • Introductions
  • Getting to know Una
  • Una’s journey and relocation in Amsterdam
  • Her transition from Exectutive Director to freelancer
  • Insights to freelancing
  • PyLadies Amsterdam
  • Excitement of freelancing and working on diverse topics
  • Her community philosophy, especially for PyLadies Amsterdam
  • Job search and recruitment

Get to know Una Galyeva

Una Galyeva

Una Galyeva

With over 19 years of experience in Data and AI, Una Galyeva held various positions, from hands-on Data and AI development to leading Data and AI teams and departments. As a driving force behind PyLadies Amsterdam, a Microsoft MVP, AI4ALL Advisory board member, and Head of Artificial Intelligence, Una is passionate about challenging perspectives and inspiring others to see things differently.

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