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None.

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Hello PyPodcast,

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Today we are very honoured to have Una with us.

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Una, do you want to introduce yourself? Oh.

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Still a human being.

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She is a superstar in PyLadies Amsterdam.

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She is doing everything for PyLadies

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Amsterdam and I'll let you talk.

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Hi everyone, I'm UNA.

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I'm running apparently PyLadies Amsterdam for

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Oh my God, like longer than six years.

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No,

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no, no way.

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And the 7th is coming soon.

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Apparently the seven years is coming

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starting from May.

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So OK, now I can officially say

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7 years. Yeah.

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Wow 7.

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Years.

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Seven years is like longer than my visa, so

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that's a lot.

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So I can assume and say that's now she went

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to the basic school, you know.

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Yeah,

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yeah, if you think of, you

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know, PyLadies is your baby, then yeah,

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it's now, you know, in school and.

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Sometimes it's feel like

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I still try to distribute the load, but

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sometimes it feels like this indeed.

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Let's learn a little bit more about

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yourself.

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Have you been living in Amsterdam for a

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long time?

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Yep, I relocated to Amsterdam 11 years ago.

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So

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I think that was the love from the first

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sight, you know? And it was

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I talking about Amsterdam,

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not about a person.

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Unless you want to personalize Amsterdam of

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course, or personificates I guess.

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Not personalized or personific.

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I think the Amsterdam has very unique

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opportunities in the sense of meetup

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saying, but at the same time it has a lot

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of pros and cons. Pros.

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There is a group of people who just

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attended meetups just for the sake of

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eating.

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It's everywhere.

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It's everywhere, not just Amsterdam, I'm

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telling you.

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Apparently, Yeah, apparently. And

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it's really saturated.

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It was saturated before COVID.

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During the COVID it was less, let's say,

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active.

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After the COVID, it's saturated again.

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Sometimes you have to make choices like

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where do I want to go? Oh my gosh, There is

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like 3 or 4 really interesting events and

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they all happen at the same time and not

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all the events making recordings and you

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know, sometimes just like the information

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in the states within.

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So yeah, I think

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for me it was really, really important to find.

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I was not looking specifically for a

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community.

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I was it's more more like, you know, the

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quest for knowledge.

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And it was like, oh, by the way, like we

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had a lot of events, but all the events are

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talks, which is fantastic.

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I do agree.

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But at the same time, you after the whole

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work day, you go to this talks and the

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talks go through like direction One,

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Direction two direction 3.

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And like, at the end of the day, your brain

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is struggling, you know, to, to get all

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these concepts together.

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So you're feeling that you start fuzzing

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out on the talk #3 if it was your good day,

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and if it was your bad day, you start

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fazing out on the talk #1 And also a big

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amount of talks are going about like, oh,

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look at this cool feature.

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Like just subscribe to a premium, you know,

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and you're gonna get that.

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Or look how some things I've done and like

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when I start asking questions.

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But like, what were your, you know, the

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thought process? What is pros and cons like?

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Yeah, you're saying that just use this

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awesome library.

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Fantastic.

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That's how it's compared to others.

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Like, why this? Why that?

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But you were working in tech before you

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moved to Amsterdam?

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Right.

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Oh yeah, yeah,

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that's that's the thing.

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I was already there.

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I usually joking that I'm, you know, like

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the the person who's there and not there at

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the same time.

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I'm usually trying to, let's say merge both

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words and like if I look back, it's my

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career.

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I think I tried almost all.

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I was only mentioning that I didn't try PhD yet,

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but for the rest,

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like working for myself, working for

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someone else, starting my own company,

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growing my own company, selling my own

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company,

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get into another one.

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And by the way, my first job in the

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Netherlands was an executive director.

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Yeah, that's how I ended up here.

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But then after that I was like, Nah, you

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know, I'm just done.

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I did some stuff for myself, but now I want

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to do something for somebody else.

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And that's how I start freelancing.

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But I was really scared to start freelancing

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in the Netherlands because I was like,

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it's a small country in case I deliver

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really shitty product.

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Or really, should

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you know what people gonna do?

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OK.

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Do you feel like it's it will close it down

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opportunities If you

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like you didn't do well the first time is

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do you feel like it will close it down for you?

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Yeah, it's like it's such a tiny country.

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So basically the majority of the folks you

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know them are just rotation of the brains

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between like the big players

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and why referring to the big players? I do

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not mean funk companies, I mean just like

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the the big players on the local markets,

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whether it's like international companies

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or local enterprises.

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But the majority of them there are some

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bunch of really like interesting unicorns,

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for example.

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And then they're basically migration as a

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mention of the brain.

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Like you go there, then they go there, then

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when they fed up doing that, they go there.

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So there is also like this consulting

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world, which is like slightly different, but

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it's almost the same I would say.

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And and yeah, that's how you get it.

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I was very, very like early in my

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career.

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I was actually considering moving to

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Amsterdam and looking for a job there, but

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I have been told that if you want to work

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in a consultancy you have to speak Dutch.

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So how's your Dutch?

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I would say really "geth so"

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I don't think that's the audience going to

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pick it up,

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at least the majority of the audience.

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It's true in case you are aiming for like

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very top senior positions, it's very, very

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true because when you need to interact

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directly with let's say C level, C minus

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level stakeholders, if it's a Dutch

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company, they will be Dutch.

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If it's an international company with some

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like offices here,

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they also would be Dutch.

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And somehow everyone here is bilingual,

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but they prefer to speak Dutch.

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And if you don't

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get it,

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you can lose a lot of,

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you know, a lot of nuances.

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That's that's true, But I wouldn't say that

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it's true if you're not interacting direct

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with stakeholders unless unless you're

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joining some kind of

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just outsourcing company that's, you know,

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basically don't care about you.

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They're just selling you per hour and

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earning the margin on top of it.

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But it's also like it's their business.

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That's how they operate in this case.

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They want to hire you as cheap as possible.

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They want to sell you as

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expensive as possible.

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Yeah, it is what it is.

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Yeah, it sounds really tough, but

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that's what make me want to know more about

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your journey when you

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first moved to Amsterdam. Like,

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do you already have a job or you

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already have your own company? Like

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so where were you at that

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point in time?

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Yeah. So when

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at that point in time, I, I sold my company

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and I was basically looking for a job and I

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was looking for a job that will help me,

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you know, to relocate myself.

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And there's also like my partner was also

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at that moment we're looking for a job.

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So we're like, OK, so if we find then we

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are moving because we didn't want, you

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know, to just move.

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We wanted to move with the good conditions

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under good circumstances because I'm

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originally not from,

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let's say EU country, which makes it

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usually very hot.

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It's very hard, but it's way harder than if

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you just like do transfer within EU.

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Because like if you're from you, you can go

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and work in any place.

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You just need to do some registrations to

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get some tax numbers and everything.

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But for the rest, you're free to go.

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Even if you have your passports.

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You can go, for example, and work in

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Scandinavian countries as well.

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So you don't need to have visa that separate thing

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unless it's Great Britain.

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That's completely.

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Sorry.

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Yes, yes, I'm looking at you now like

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Queen, Queen.

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Actually, like we also take a hit.

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So I mean who lose more?

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Never know.

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Yeah. So

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I mentioned like that my first job in the

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Netherlands was an executive director.

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So it was basically a

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service company.

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You're doing a lot of things, but their

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goal was to build the company was from

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scratch, which was really valuable.

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Because I get through all this, you know, I

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get to experience bureaucracy first hand.

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But I wouldn't say that it's a lot of

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bureaucracy.

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At least what I'm hearing, for example,

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from the colleagues who live in Germany, it's

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it's completely different story.

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So I would say there is a bureaucracy, yes. I see.

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Yeah, because

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I also have a good friend who live in

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Germany and you know, these two country I

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think is the top 2 competing who have more

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bureaucracy.

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Yeah, something like I would say something

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like that indeed.

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And then I was like, OK, so yeah, which is

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how the tech scheme looks like.

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What can I do? What are the companies and

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the Netherlands like some major players,

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you know, like ASML

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you have like Phillips, that's like they

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were the majority of the folks are gone.

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They have like okay, booking.com and like

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this, you know, big dinosaurs.

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Let's put in this way.

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So and there are other options of course,

277
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,120
and there are

278
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:18,920
more local options. And

279
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,800
I was like, yeah, what should I do? And

280
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640
then I was like, no, I want to go, I want

281
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:24,480
to feel freedom.

282
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,240
So I'm going to go freelancing, which was

283
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,280
really strange decision because it came with

284
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,600
some changes of the residence permits

285
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:33,800
by default, like if you're located in

286
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,560
specific capacity, you're not allowed to do

287
00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:36,600
to work in for yourself.

288
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:37,920
So there are like a lot of things.

289
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,080
So I found a way to do that like legally

290
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:40,720
and officially.

291
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,400
And as I mentioned that back then, I was a

292
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,280
little little bits like afraid of

293
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,840
doing something on the local market because

294
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,600
I didn't know how rusty I am.

295
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,640
You know, rusty not in the sense that doing

296
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,640
things with Rust like in the opposite

297
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:54,320
direction,

298
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,760
not related to Rust language,

299
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,600
the pun intended joke.

300
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,120
So,

301
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:01,840
and I was like, yeah, where are you going

302
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,840
to go? And like where have friends, they're

303
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:04,600
going to help me.

304
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,280
Like I just want to deliver.

305
00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,680
Good job, you know, and I don't want to

306
00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,840
look for the clients or something.

307
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:11,840
I was looking for some

308
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,320
kind of low ending fruits.

309
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,200
And apparently the friends of mine, they

310
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,320
were like, oh, just, you know,

311
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,120
like if you're interested, it's like we're

312
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,520
working with the United States,

313
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,360
so we're working with American markets.

314
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:22,760
If you're interested, go there, you know,

315
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:23,600
go there.

316
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:24,800
I mean, stay here, but

317
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,800
go there and do some stuff. And

318
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,080
I was like, yeah, I was really, really

319
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:28,560
excited.

320
00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:30,400
So basically for me legally, it was really

321
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:31,840
easy because my,

322
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,920
all my, let's say relationships were with a

323
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:34,760
local company,

324
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,440
which, you know, protect me from

325
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:36,960
everything.

326
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,280
So in case something happened with the

327
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,440
money or clients, it's not my problem, it's

328
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,160
their problem.

329
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,840
Like they were handling everything for me.

330
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,320
So I would say that was for Lancing, but

331
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,600
it's still like working for someone else,

332
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,120
but like with some freedom to say no to

333
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,240
specific clients and like, let's let's say

334
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:52,840
like that.

335
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,400
And that was funny because you working with

336
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,400
people online, there is huge time

337
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:58,040
difference.

338
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,680
That's where it caught my attention because

339
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,760
when we started doing meetings online,

340
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,280
people were surprised to know that I'm

341
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:06,960
female.

342
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,480
Somehow they were expecting just, you know,

343
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,160
another guy.

344
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,440
It's a cliche, but it's still, it's still.

345
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,840
And there was like, oh, are you? Oh,

346
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,960
we didn't expect this is like, what do you

347
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:17,320
mean by?

348
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:19,360
Oh my God,

349
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:21,240
I think, I think

350
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:22,760
people don't check LinkedIn.

351
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,600
But like, you know, at that time, right?

352
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,400
It's not like now people will check your

353
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,800
LinkedIn before talking to you. Oh.

354
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,320
Boy, yeah, I I think there is like, yeah, that's

355
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,240
like, who are you? I was like my

356
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:35,640
you're engineer, you know,

357
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:36,520
or

358
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:37,000
you

359
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:37,560
can.

360
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:40,080
You tell us about this freelancing job

361
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:40,960
specifically.

362
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,440
Like what do you do as a freelancer?

363
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,800
So there was 1 gig was pure data

364
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:46,440
engineering.

365
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,800
So basically you have

366
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,400
you do sensor fusion or a lot of sensor

367
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,280
data coming in, you need to process it very

368
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,440
sparse data and then you ship it to the

369
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:55,200
data scientist.

370
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,760
They're going to build different like time

371
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,680
series, like statistical and machine like using

372
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,680
different machine learning algorithms on

373
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:02,240
top of that.

374
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,760
That was like the first one gig.

375
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,160
It was approximately 4 or five months

376
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,000
and then I was dragged into the more, let's

377
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,360
say ML related gig.

378
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,440
Again, there are like data scientists and

379
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,440
they're struggling to put things in

380
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,120
production.

381
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,040
Could you help us to go there, You know,

382
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,560
set up some like bring some software

383
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:19,960
engineering practices in place.

384
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,720
Help us like with CICD pipeline

385
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,480
specifically for machine learning training,

386
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,960
introduce continuous training where it's

387
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,920
possible set up specific metrics and

388
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,200
threshold for monitoring.

389
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,240
And that was really interesting because at

390
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,600
that moment that was a very, very awesome

391
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,160
project.

392
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,600
I was working with self driving trucks and

393
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,720
that was like, whoa, that's where I learned

394
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,440
first time in my life what LiDAR is

395
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,760
before that, I have no clue.

396
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,920
Like that this thing that do this like

397
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,960
365°, like your

398
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,080
3D coordination position.

399
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,360
And then it's basically allows you, let's

400
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:52,160
say to see.

401
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,880
And then you can run on this like

402
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,720
combination of computer vision algorithms

403
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,880
together with all this, let's say a sensor

404
00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,920
data that coming in like combination of that.

405
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,520
And you get like the, the full picture of

406
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,280
what's going on.

407
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,400
That I think was for me really, really eyes

408
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,000
opening

409
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,440
because you know, before that, like what's

410
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,880
the problem? You just say don't hit,

411
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:09,960
don't hit this

412
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:14,400
very cool.

413
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,000
And after that I jump on the different

414
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,720
things so I get him back to more like

415
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,200
maritime industry and that was the moment of

416
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,440
help to predict the best time for crew

417
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,080
rotation.

418
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,240
So you have like

419
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,680
crew who stays for a longer term on the

420
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,280
ship and when ship arrives to specific

421
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,000
coast, you need to take an account the

422
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,480
weather, taking account a nationality of

423
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,400
the crew that has to be rotated taking into

424
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,640
account visit conditions of the country.

425
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,560
They think they're gonna port at plus like

426
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:43,160
weather condition.

427
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,080
And I mentioned like condition also like

428
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,000
all the ocean.

429
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,720
How is it how it's like behaving, how it's

430
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,720
working? And then what is the probability

431
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,480
that the ship going to be at this port

432
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,560
versus that ports? What is the most, let's

433
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:56,400
say, optimal condition for rotation, which

434
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,680
can saves a lot of money or which can even

435
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,960
prevent rotation of the crew? For example,

436
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,280
visa regime is not

437
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,160
favorable.

438
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,280
Also, you get a lot of like repair teams.

439
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,440
So there are a lot of repairs that happens

440
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,280
as soon as the ship is moving.

441
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,200
So there are big repairs that you do in,

442
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,960
for example, in different types of docks,

443
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,560
but there are also repairs and go.

444
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,800
So imagine like like the folks that flying

445
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,240
with like this very excessive baggage and

446
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,880
then for example, they losing it back.

447
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,320
And the bag has like all the tools, like,

448
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,800
you know, like the tools, cost of the

449
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,080
tools, just like, yeah,

450
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:27,640
like

451
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,200
they were they were tags in it.

452
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,440
The bags was also secured because it's very

453
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:34,080
expensive.

454
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,000
But still, you know, it's like depends on

455
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,800
their company.

456
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,640
Like do they have like the specific

457
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,400
tracking? Do they have if the luggage is

458
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,040
lost, it's usually not a problem of our

459
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:42,440
company.

460
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:43,200
It's a problem of

461
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,600
handling company at the airports and the

462
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,440
majority of the cases it is what it is,

463
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:48,360
yeah.

464
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:49,920
It's simpler, complicated.

465
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,000
I think that's I never thought that you

466
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,600
need to like the way you describe this

467
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,920
managing, you know, ship crews as they port

468
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,560
because I, you know, I enjoy cruise ships.

469
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,800
Like I've only done it a few times, but it is

470
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,360
a very big production

471
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:07,320
to me.

472
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,320
Like managing the shipping cruise.

473
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,160
There was some

474
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,960
Netflix shows to show just how they run the

475
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,160
restaurants inside the cruise ship planning

476
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,680
meal or logistics.

477
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,480
Because once you're inside the ship, you

478
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,320
don't get to reload or something.

479
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,840
So now you're talking about the actual crew

480
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,600
management using, I guess as a software

481
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,320
engineer, you,

482
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,640
you write some program for that.

483
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,400
That's kind of fascinating.

484
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,120
Do you use Python for all?

485
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,560
Partially

486
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,400
like when it's possible, but you know, the

487
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,760
fancy is when I decided that I don't want

488
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,480
to do freelancing anymore and I just want

489
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,880
to work for a local company.

490
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,360
I went back to consulting because I

491
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,680
couldn't find a company that gonna satisfy,

492
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:49,840
you know, my needs.

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,520
And that like was awesome topics that I

494
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,280
would work at.

495
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,040
And that's how I joined the consulting.

496
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,760
Like the local consulting company, let's

497
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,200
say it was an outsourcing company.

498
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,760
It's still an outsourcing company, but they

499
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,400
also have like this separate department

500
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:01,480
called the TN Innovation.

501
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,960
That's where I landed and that's where I

502
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,960
get an opportunity to build whole things from

503
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,360
almost let's say from scratch.

504
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,040
And that's where I switch to working with

505
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:08,640
aircrafts.

506
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,160
So like now you can think about each

507
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:11,760
aircraft.

508
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,600
So how much food should we put in it? How

509
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,480
much water,

510
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,720
how much fuel, let's say based on the

511
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,840
amount of passenger that's right for for

512
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,200
registration, should we swap an aircraft?

513
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,320
You know how the operations of the airport

514
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,400
is going to run knowing what is expected

515
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,200
amount of passengers from, let's say from

516
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,280
the local air company.

517
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:31,680
So it's.

518
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:32,680
A random question.

519
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:33,400
Yeah, go on.

520
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,880
I have heard in my previous job that a lot

521
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,160
of, you know, air traffic planning is using

522
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:38,720
Prologue.

523
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,640
Is that true? Do you know or you don't

524
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,360
touch that part of craziness?

525
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,320
I touch this parts, I touch this part

526
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,680
because I would say that one of my latest

527
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,160
gigs was redesigning basically the whole

528
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,920
data in AI system for a very big fun

529
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,640
European company which is controlling

530
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:57,480
European sky.

531
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,560
Like there are a lot of things going on there.

532
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,440
They solving problems

533
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:02,800
that are not

534
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,080
common and they're solving very unique

535
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:05,680
problems.

536
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,480
That's why there is a lot of custom built

537
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,800
stuff because otherwise the way how the

538
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,920
information is shared, like how you can

539
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,120
parse it, which makes it very, very

540
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:16,520
difficult and completely different from

541
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:16,920
others.

542
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,920
You even can have like up to 12 languages

543
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,960
used for different components because what

544
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,360
they do, you know, the the funniest part, I

545
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:26,880
never thought about airspace like that.

546
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,880
They calculate airspace and they create

547
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,040
like cubes and they calculate the capacity

548
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,240
of each cube to flow through it.

549
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,160
And each cube is operated by

550
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,000
like ATC or a combination of cubes is

551
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,960
operated by ITC by this like the air 

552
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,080
traffic control tower.

553
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,400
And basically when the aircraft is flying

554
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,640
the ATC, just passing it from one chunk of

555
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,760
cubes to another chunk of cubes.

556
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,040
Like next time I have a delay in my flight

557
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,040
I would think of you so.

558
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:55,600
Yes.

559
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:56,680
Wait, wait,

560
00:17:58,120 --> 00:17:58,240
wait, don't think of me

561
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,120
think about the cubes.

562
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:00,480
That's.

563
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,000
Where?

564
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:01,720
Yes.

565
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,600
Because of the weather or because of the

566
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:05,000
other things.

567
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,680
But you know where you can hear that? So

568
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,680
for example, when the pilot says, oh sorry,

569
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,600
we just missed our time slot for departure,

570
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,160
that's exactly they missed their claimed

571
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,120
space in a cube.

572
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:16,480
Oh, yeah,

573
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,080
that's happened a lot.

574
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080
Like when after, you know, the pandemic and

575
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:20,760
also during the

576
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,520
summer season, it happens a lot, especially with

577
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,320
some flight company that is really cheap

578
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:27,280
and start with an hour.

579
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,000
It happens a lot.

580
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,480
We're not going to pick up the topic of

581
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,080
Coldplay and they are

582
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,120
divorcing couples, right?

583
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,160
I was just looking at that the other day.

584
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:42,080
Yes,

585
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:45,640
it's

586
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:46,360
yeah.

587
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:47,520
Let's not gossip about it,

588
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:48,600
yeah?

589
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,800
Let's change the topic. Yeah.

590
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,280
What spark? You started PyLadies in

591
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:53,760
Amsterdam.

592
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:54,520
You know,

593
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,920
it sounds really strange, but the smells

594
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,040
and the sounds.

595
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,320
So I was attending a lot of meetups.

596
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,920
Usually I was mostly one or maybe like

597
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,560
there were two of us there

598
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,760
let's say, that can be identified as females if I

599
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,000
put in this way.

600
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,600
And the majority of the meetups starting

601
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,080
with guys drinking a lot of beer and eating

602
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,920
very bad quality pizza.

603
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,880
But like, I know it's still like free of

604
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,040
charge food, but it's like very, very bad.

605
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,200
And at that moment I was not drinking

606
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,480
alcohol at all.

607
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,160
So for me, it was really problematic

608
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,360
because I was smelling it and I was

609
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,760
smelling and the beer and the pizza and the

610
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:32,120
guys, I'm

611
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:34,720
sorry.

612
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,240
In the summer I can imagine it's

613
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:37,960
Really though, yes crowded places very hot, you

614
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,760
know it's not going to be nice.  

615
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,080
Yeah. And I was like, what if there could be meetup

616
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,720
where it could be not about talks,

617
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,760
it would be mostly about doing still doing

618
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,640
something, doing some exercises like trying

619
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:50,120
out a learning new concept, not just

620
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:50,640
Like I wanted something that I can, you

621
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:51,280
watching a demo.

622
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,560
know, like run, it's runs on my machine,

623
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,200
so.

624
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:55,600
Or OK, or if you need some specific

625
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,120
credits, like to run it somewhere else.

626
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,680
And I wanted to have a space where I can

627
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,880
influence a bit the food and the drinks.

628
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,880
I was not saying that's like I am against

629
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,800
alcohol.

630
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:07,720
It's not about that.

631
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,640
It's more about it's OK to have alcohol,

632
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,200
but at the end during the networking part

633
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:12,720
and not during the event.

634
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,040
Because if you aim to do workshops, then

635
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,680
you know, that's something different.

636
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,000
So that was my idea and I'm really thankful

637
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,760
that that moment I meet another person who

638
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,680
was like, so if we both dissatisfied,

639
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:27,360
why not to start something new? And we're

640
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:28,600
like, OK, So what should we do? How we

641
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,280
should do it? 

642
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,720
Like should we create a meetup group? 

643
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,760
And then then what's where to

644
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,360
advertise it? I don't know, go to the

645
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,640
events and talk.

646
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,600
Oh, we have this cool idea, just go through it.

647
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,680
And there was like other any low hanging

648
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,160
fruits or something.

649
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,720
And next to it, I would say my desire was

650
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,400
to see more, let's say, female and

651
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,840
underrepresented groups on the stage, you

652
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,800
know, taking the spots and not just being

653
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,000
somebody's like, assistant or something

654
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,240
like that.

655
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,720
And I was like, yeah, maybe there's

656
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,600
something.

657
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,680
And then just like with a short discovery,

658
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,960
we noticed, oh, there was a PyLadies

659
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,120
Amsterdam chapter.

660
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,120
Unfortunately, they somehow like stopped

661
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,360
their activities in 2000

662
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,800
just

663
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:19,360
2014

664
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:20,800
Yeah, I guess something like that.

665
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:21,400
There was some folks running it.

666
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,640
So I really thankful that they started it

667
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,560
and we're like, oh, could we resurrect the

668
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,880
zombie horse, you know?

669
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,560
And that's how we started.

670
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:30,880
And what was really funny today when I was

671
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:31,640
chatting, sending DMs to Mariatta, I

672
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,080
scrolled down and I noticed my first

673
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,280
message to her like saying, hello, I'm

674
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,200
doing this.

675
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,040
I'm trying to get access to here and there.

676
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,240
Could you help me? Thank you for

677
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,480
understanding.

678
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,680
It was so

679
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,720
nice to see it.

680
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,280
Thank you. Yeah.

681
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,440
Yeah.

682
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,240
I

683
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:54,840
think that's the same.

684
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,800
I've heard these stories a lot, like

685
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,360
everything you said, you know, like we all

686
00:21:58,360 --> 00:21:59,280
hear, we want to see more people who we can

687
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:00,520
relate to, you know, want to see more women

688
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,320
in the community.

689
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:03,880
There are

690
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:04,800
lots of PyLadies these chapters worldwide who

691
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:05,040
just, you know, people started it, maybe

692
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,480
they have other priorities afterwards.

693
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,880
And then it got dormant.

694
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,080
And I'm really glad to hear that, you know,

695
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,000
you picked it up and then you run it and

696
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,440
you have your own vision of, you know, kind

697
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,680
of community you want.

698
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:18,080
I think that's really good to hear.

699
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,200
I'm more used to hear of people

700
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,400
complaining,

701
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,720
like saying there should be something for

702
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,360
me here, Like, I want an event like this.

703
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,240
You should be running an event the way I

704
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,120
want it. 

705
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,600
But yet they're not running it themselves.

706
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:34,880
They're just saying you should run

707
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,760
conference like this, this and that.

708
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,840
But when we ask them, why don't you help

709
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:39,840
out? Why don't you run it? They say no, I'm busy.

710
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,200
Of course

711
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,520
So

712
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,480
I'm really thankful that you are actually

713
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:46,920
doing it.

714
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,160
There is a lot of people who are telling me

715
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,920
it's not going to work like workshops, it's

716
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,800
impossible to do.

717
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,560
I mean like workshops, they have to prepare

718
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,040
first.

719
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:57,880
You need to find someone who wants to give

720
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:58,720
it like free of charge.

721
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,440
It's a lot of work.

722
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:01,960
You need to just like with a lot of like trial and errors to

723
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,680
get, you know, what's the

724
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,160
like, how to do it.

725
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,240
Like what are the formats that going to

726
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,400
work, what's going to work, what's going to

727
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:11,120
work? And but everybody will tell me it's

728
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,120
impossible.

729
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:14,200
And especially if you want more like

730
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,160
underrepresented groups running the

731
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:15,680
workshops. No,

732
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,960
you know, no way.

733
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,040
Like it's not gonna work.

734
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:20,440
But what I learned, you know, the compound

735
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,960
effect, that's what works.

736
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,440
So if you go in no matter what, and if

737
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,960
you're delivering, people start noticing you.

738
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:25,600
People start talking about you.

739
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,960
And what is for me is really, really eye

740
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,240
opening.

741
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,160
Before COVID, all the events were in

742
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,600
person.

743
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,520
We were not doing recordings because it was

744
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,840
too hard to set up.

745
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,040
Everything back then was like, oh, no, you

746
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,640
know, just you're just doing it.

747
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,560
And you constantly was looking for

748
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,760
sponsors.

749
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,920
Like who's going to pay, you know, who's

750
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:46,680
going to host, who's going to feed

751
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,960
us,

752
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,560
let's say in our workshop givers and

753
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,480
workshop takers.

754
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,520
And that was constant like, oh, there was a

755
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,920
list of companies.

756
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,280
We tried to reach out to the big companies.

757
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,880
They say no because they were more

758
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,760
interested in like events that's going to

759
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,400
attract 150 people versus event that

760
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,160
attracts 60 people because we have this 60

761
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:03,040
people Max capacity for in person events.

762
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,720
Otherwise for the workshop, it's really

763
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:06,960
hard to handle.

764
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,840
If you want to help, if you want to support

765
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,920
people, then you know that's not going to

766
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,640
happen.

767
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,080
Was more than 60.

768
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,840
At least that's what we learn and always like.

769
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,520
As soon as COVID started, we didn't stop

770
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,680
when a lot of communities just closed or

771
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,800
shut it down.

772
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,320
We just switched online and we start

773
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,080
experiencing the beauty of doing things

774
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,000
online because that's where we realize, oh,

775
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,720
by the way,

776
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:29,040
in case there is no one to host you, you

777
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:30,280
can host yourself online.

778
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,520
And then the people are saying, no, online

779
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,600
is not gonna work.

780
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,920
People not gonna show up for the events.

781
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:37,680
You know, there's, I was like, look, if

782
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,560
we're just doing online events, we now have

783
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,400
a capability of recording it.

784
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,720
So now you're recording it and there's also

785
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,640
a video record of it.

786
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,360
Although there are still a lot of ads on

787
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,200
YouTube.

788
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,240
And notice if you add in time stamps, then

789
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,280
it slightly decreased the amount of ads

790
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,320
that you get because it's also correlated

791
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,960
to a lot of factors like do you have like

792
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280
paid ads or whenever we don't,

793
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,520
we don't use that.

794
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,560
So in this case, we just you just get like

795
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,440
general ones.

796
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,040
You keep repo open.

797
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:04,400
Of course, some materials could be

798
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,880
outdated.

799
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,360
So we usually encourage people if you try

800
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,320
in our workshop, something doesn't work,

801
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,040
please open PR, you know, just do that.

802
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,440
So you're going to help yourself and you're

803
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:15,680
going to help others because you know, the

804
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,120
methods got deprecated.

805
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:17,960
Other things are going to happen to the

806
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,200
materials.

807
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,640
For example, we were heavily using called

808
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,240
Mini-conda in the beginning just for the

809
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,880
setup and everything.

810
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,400
Then we switch to poetry, then we switch to uv.

811
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,400
So like we also like migrating stuff, but

812
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,040
we couldn't migrate, migrate everything.

813
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,360
But yeah, I think that's was the beauty of it.

814
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:30,840
And then after COVID,

815
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,400
like as soon as you can do more stuff, we

816
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,040
basically switch to we're not looking

817
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,760
specifically for anyone to host our

818
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,640
workshops, company usually reaching out to us.

819
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,520
If no, no one reaching out to us, then

820
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,600
super simple like we just do online.

821
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,920
And it also help you to get workshop givers

822
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,520
from different countries as well.

823
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,840
So that's also the beauty of that.

824
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,600
These are all

825
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,520
very good advice, yeah.

826
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,520
I remember last here at PyData Amsterdam

827
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,400
when I was at the booth.

828
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,760
So there's a booth for PyLadies.

829
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,840
And then she's asking every lady that she

830
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,960
talked to.

831
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,560
You want to give a workshop? And this, this is.

832
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,200
Yeah,

833
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200
this is like stuck in my head.

834
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,120
Yeah.

835
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,920
I.

836
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,400
Think, you know, really good,

837
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,600
Yeah.

838
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,080
I think what's stuck in my head, last year

839
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,600
I was at EuroPython, so it was like it's PyLadies booth

840
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,000
and I think I had, like, a 4:00 flight in the

841
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,040
morning, something like that.

842
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:23,480
So I was not in my best mood.

843
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,800
So I came and that was like my analytical

844
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:26,640
me in the full force, which is not really

845
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:27,280
compatible, you know, with human beings

846
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,440
around.

847
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:29,080
And I remember that I just a storm to the

848
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,480
booth and it's like like we have a PyLadies

849
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,160
we're doing this.

850
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:34,800
Oh, and PyLadies Amsterdam doing

851
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,160
workshops and

852
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,600
if you're gonna put a counter how much time

853
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,120
I mentioned workshops by the end of EuroPython.

854
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,080
I think everyone does. That's

855
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,160
crazy

856
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,160
lady that's talking about workshops.

857
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:50,640
Oh my God.

858
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,200
I think it's really good to hear your

859
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,000
experience.

860
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,760
As

861
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,880
you know, I'm one of the people who

862
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:57,480
administer the chapters

863
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,840
for PyLadies is basically whenever someone say

864
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,320
I want to start PyLadies, I'm the one

865
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,280
giving the initial like access, creating

866
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,560
their account and everything.

867
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,800
I think there's a lot of people they want

868
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:14,640
to start a group, but they don't know how

869
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,560
to or they don't know what it entails.

870
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Maybe, you know, some people think I just

871
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,200
open a meet up account, but there's a lot of,

872
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,280
like you mentioned, like you need to

873
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,960
outreach, you need to ask people to come

874
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,560
and speak, right, giving workshops and

875
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,800
figuring out what's a good format or not.

876
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,600
So I think it will be good to share all of

877
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,880
this experience with people like. Yeah.

878
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,960
You know, if I may to add what's really

879
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,840
interesting, my goal is not to create

880
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,400
workshop givers.

881
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,480
That's not my goal.

882
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,160
My goal is to encourage people to try it out

883
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,280
realize whether it's hard, not hard, like

884
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,560
it doesn't matter.

885
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,480
But then I was constantly asking myself why

886
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,760
I'm doing this, you know, what's the

887
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,640
purpose of running it for so many years?

888
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,960
Why didn't you know? There was like a lot

889
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,920
of changes in other like organizers.

890
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,360
We also, by the way, we keep our team

891
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,360
really, really small.

892
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,320
So the biggest amount of people we used to

893
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,000
have, it was 3.

894
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,480
That was the biggest amount.

895
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,040
And now like there are again, two of us

896
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,640
so far.

897
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,040
So I'm happy to see that our workshop

898
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960
givers now speaking at the conferences.

899
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,600
And I think that's for me the best.

900
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,920
We, even though they can, for example,

901
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,120
speak even for local events, I'm already

902
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:25,880
happy with that.

903
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,960
It gives them confidence that they can, it

904
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:28,800
gives them confidence that

905
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,040
you can do that.

906
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,840
And you know, there is nothing weird about that.

907
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:32,680
And to lure people to do that, I'm usually

908
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,000
talking about two options.

909
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,040
I'm saying option number one, you're

910
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,720
working with some specific Python library,

911
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,600
a specific concept you work in every day.

912
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,600
For sure.

913
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,360
There are a lot, like a lot of tricks up on

914
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,680
your sleeve, sleeves upon your trick, it

915
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,360
doesn't matter.

916
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,720
Butter with butter.

917
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,000
So you probably know something that other

918
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,120
people don't.

919
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,800
So just share it.

920
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,840
Like even though if you're working with

921
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,360
pandas, I mean like there are so many

922
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,720
things that you can do.

923
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,240
Like there are so many like how you handle UTC.

924
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,080
I mean, there are a lot of things and

925
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,640
people do not realize that.

926
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,240
So you're usually saying focus on something

927
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:11,120
that you're doing every day and just share

928
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,080
what you can share.

929
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:14,720
Of course, like protecting sensitivity of

930
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:15,920
the data of the task.

931
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,440
If it's like intellectual property and

932
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400
everything or your

933
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,400
employers

934
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,280
doesn't allow you to share something, fine.

935
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,040
But from the other side, I'm saying maybe

936
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,560
there is something on your bucket list that

937
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,760
you never dare to try and you never had

938
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,360
time for that.

939
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,120
And then if you can tap into that

940
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,920
potential, it's like you can try it and

941
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,200
then you can run it and then you can

942
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,800
upskill people that.

943
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,960
And by the way, if you also have some kind

944
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:38,560
of, I don't know, like performance or

945
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,600
whatever called stupid plan on your work

946
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,640
and you can also add it there.

947
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,000
So where basically you will be allowed even

948
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,120
to use your working hours for that. So

949
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,840
it's like win-win situation for everyone and

950
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,520
somehow it worked so far.

951
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,640
It definitely have been helpful for me as well.

952
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,960
And I totally agree.

953
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,040
Like even in the beginning, I just

954
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,280
I didn't think public speaking is something

955
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,400
I could ever do.

956
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,280
At least when I first came to one of my

957
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,960
earlier tech conference, one of my first

958
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,880
PyCon like I was really impressed to see a

959
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,560
lot of women speaking.

960
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,280
Before that, another conference I've been

961
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,800
to, it was very commercial.

962
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,560
The speakers are all

963
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,880
CEO or CTO's or something very high up.

964
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880
I don't see normal people like me speaking

965
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,400
on stage. So I

966
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,680
I just thought that you must be a professor

967
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,160
or CEO to speak at conferences.

968
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,320
But it's not, at least not in the Python

969
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,320
committee and definitely not in the PyLadies community.

970
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,680
So I do feel it is the purpose of this

971
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,160
community to provide that space and you

972
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,720
should take it.

973
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,160
Yeah.

974
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,680
And, and I think you just like, you know,

975
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,960
give away my secrets, just like that's my

976
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,280
motivation of,

977
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,800
you know, I love giving workshop because

978
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,880
like I get it as an opportunity to really

979
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,200
like strengthen what I already know or

980
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,280
maybe I know a little bit, but I want to

981
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:00,160
know more than after I learned it then

982
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,120
because I know how to explain it to other

983
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,520
people.

984
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,440
So it's like,

985
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:06,600
you know, I think it's a very good like

986
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,280
learning opportunity for whoever is like

987
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520
giving the workshop as well. Yeah.

988
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,720
Yeah.

989
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,480
And it's not only this.

990
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,680
I think what for me is really, really

991
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,840
important.

992
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,520
I want to recreate your current working

993
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,760
situation in the room.

994
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,880
So what do you mean by that? Like at least

995
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,280
like our chapter, that was our decision

996
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:25,880
that we allowing anyone doesn't matter.

997
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,720
Like whatever, you know, the society, like

998
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,920
put what type of labels on them.

999
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,320
So basically, if you're interested in if

1000
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:31,680
you're working with Python and you're

1001
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,560
interested in this particular topic, join us.

1002
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,240
If not, no, you know,

1003
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:35,920
really simple.

1004
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,120
But the workshops would be given.

1005
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,040
So we have at least 12 workshops per year.

1006
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,040
So at least 11 workshops would be given

1007
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,840
predominantly by females or transgenders.

1008
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,560
other different options that exist

1009
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,640
nowadays? Let's put it this way.

1010
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,040
So like, that's the power.

1011
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,880
And it's really funny to see people when

1012
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,040
you're talking to them and they were like,

1013
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,240
oh, you know, I can give workshop.

1014
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,280
I was like, yes, I do agree you can give a

1015
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,240
workshop.

1016
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,480
We have only one slot for you per year.

1017
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,880
Otherwise, if you don't do any big

1018
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,760
contributions to the community, you

1019
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,480
wouldn't be given this slot.

1020
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,000
So which means you need to pair up with

1021
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,520
your female or other colleagues and let's

1022
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,600
them run the workshop.

1023
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,360
Oh, we don't have senior women, OK,

1024
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,840
even as junior women give her space to to

1025
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,000
run a workshop and just be there.

1026
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Not as somebody who stand in front of her.

1027
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,320
No, as her shadow.

1028
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,360
Like, tried it.

1029
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,320
And I think for me, the funniest part was

1030
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,600
to see in our first workshops where in the

1031
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,200
room were only like, two or three guys and

1032
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,360
one of them, you know, walked toward me.

1033
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,200
It's like, now I do understand.

1034
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,480
How does it feel now? I don't understand.

1035
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,560
I've never, ever been in room with such a

1036
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,600
big amount of, like, female engineers.

1037
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,440
So what I meant by saying before that I

1038
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,640
want to recreate

1039
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,960
what you're going to see in the workplace.

1040
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:48,760
That's why we are open for everyone.

1041
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,560
So usually if you look at our workshops,

1042
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,120
it's really mixed.

1043
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,720
So the guys there is like the females and

1044
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,280
other and I really enjoy it because what I

1045
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,080
didn't liked for with a lot of female

1046
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,360
communities, they keep you in a bubble,

1047
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,680
they keep you in a bubble.

1048
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,840
Sisterhood supports everything, but it's

1049
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,480
not real life.

1050
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,760
I just want to prep you for the real life.

1051
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,560
Yes, it would be not easy, but at least you

1052
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,480
know how to find your sponsors, you know

1053
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,480
how to find your allies, you know, like how

1054
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,640
to build your career up, how to manage up

1055
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:19,560
people if you're gonna work with different

1056
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,640
And I had some experience like with the

1057
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,720
pure female communities, which I really

1058
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,000
didn't like.

1059
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,040
And that's the reason why I said I'm

1060
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,200
creating an inclusive community with some,

1061
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,920
you know, with some they'd say remarks.

1062
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,360
With some adjustments.

1063
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,560
Yes,

1064
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,520
yes, yes.

1065
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,480
I still think that I do agree with you, but

1066
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,040
I think that, you know, there are different

1067
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,080
purpose of this kind of

1068
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,120
underrepresented

1069
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:46,520
kind of focus group.

1070
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,160
I think one of them is

1071
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,760
like what you said, I think it's beautiful,

1072
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,760
but I think if someone want to have a more

1073
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,360
kind of, you know, support network, that's

1074
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,720
also OK too.

1075
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,800
But remember like maybe you should form

1076
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,240
this group to join the majority group so

1077
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,120
you can integrate as well.

1078
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,120
I think the only part which we usually do

1079
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680
not cover.

1080
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,720
So we usually do not cover something for

1081
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,240
complete beginners.

1082
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,040
We did some events in the past, but then we

1083
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,440
switch fully to more, let's say mature folks.

1084
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,280
So in this case, if they are complete

1085
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,560
beginner, we

1086
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,320
sends

1087
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,120
folks to the

1088
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,120
other communities that exist that are more

1089
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,440
and more, let's say better suitable for

1090
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,760
complete beginners.

1091
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,800
If you just start working, for example,

1092
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,600
with any programming languages, Python is

1093
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,120
your first or if you switch it from another

1094
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,120
one to Python

1095
00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:33,840
or vice versa.

1096
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,280
So in this case we do redirect them to

1097
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,800
other places where they can find

1098
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,440
information because like for beginners

1099
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:39,240
there is a lot of things.

1100
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,160
Things you can send people to us HumbleData

1101
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,440
because we are absolute beginner focus.

1102
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,480
We do.

1103
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,280
We also going to do this for Pydata

1104
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Amsterdam by the way, this year.

1105
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,440
Yeah, nice. So.

1106
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,320
This is going to happen as well, yes, but

1107
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,040
that's our focus.

1108
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,160
I usually say it's like, you know,

1109
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,120
community by practitioners for

1110
00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:56,680
practitioners or for practitioners by

1111
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,560
practitioners.

1112
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,120
I think that's good.

1113
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,360
I think that's good that you found what

1114
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,080
kind of status that meetup is, like, what

1115
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:04,840
purpose it is, what benefit it can give to

1116
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:06,840
the members.

1117
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,560
I think it's beautiful.

1118
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:10,680
No, I think that's actually important for

1119
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,600
you to define what you want out of your

1120
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,480
community.

1121
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,600
Like you can't just be doing everything

1122
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,600
just for the sake of doing it.

1123
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,560
You need to have a vision, priorities.

1124
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,200
Yeah.

1125
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:19,720
Do you have anything that you really want

1126
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,240
to talk about that we didn't cover? We can

1127
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,800
do that.

1128
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,560
I think yes, one topic that I really want

1129
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:27,280
to touch upon, there's like the

1130
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,280
recruitments.

1131
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,840
I just want to add something about.

1132
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,600
OK, please. Yeah,

1133
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,240
the first, first thing first, like I

1134
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,360
finally got I I signed an offer today, so

1135
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,840
that's finally.

1136
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,360
Oh, congratulations. New journey.

1137
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:40,680
Yeah, that was a long, a long, a long, long

1138
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,160
journey. Yeah. So.

1139
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,640
That's about it, yeah.

1140
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,480
One thing that I want to point out and

1141
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:44,920
that's where things gets really, really

1142
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,200
weird is when you're looking for a very top

1143
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,560
level positions and that's where the rubber

1144
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,240
hits the ground.

1145
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:50,960
So before that I was privileged not to,

1146
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:51,680
let's say looking for a job.

1147
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,120
The jobs were looking for me.

1148
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,760
So I was usually, you know, they were that,

1149
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,800
yeah, it doesn't matter like what I was

1150
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,960
doing whether it was my company or not my

1151
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,160
company somehow I like organize space

1152
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,800
around me in such a way that people start

1153
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:04,560
reaching out.

1154
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,960
So that was my reality for I would say the

1155
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,880
last 20 years.

1156
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,240
So I again, I was privileged to, you know,

1157
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,400
to, to build that.

1158
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,240
And when people are saying, oh, you know,

1159
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,640
now around the layoffs and everything, I

1160
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,000
was like, thankfully never hit by layoff.

1161
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,680
I have never experienced it because I was

1162
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,680
always feeling that something is going on.

1163
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,320
So I was usually switching gears before the

1164
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,960
layoffs were happening.

1165
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,640
Just say that's just like my I don't know what.

1166
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,400
Call it six sense or stupid sense.

1167
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:33,840
Instinct.

1168
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,720
Yeah,

1169
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:37,640
so I had some personal changes.

1170
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,320
That's the reason behind like the selling

1171
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,200
house and everything. And

1172
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,720
apparently

1173
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:44,680
I was working for myself and I went to chat

1174
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,400
with my bank.

1175
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,720
So I will need the mortgage for like parts

1176
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,200
of the sum.

1177
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,640
So like can I get it and whatever like or

1178
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,680
can I move the mortgage that I have in the

1179
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,600
house to that? Like it's, they call it like

1180
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,520
overbrugging, which means like over

1181
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:00,400
bridging, which I really like.

1182
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,160
Like the whole term basically idea was if

1183
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,960
you're working, if you're working for

1184
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,000
yourself in the Netherlands is possible,

1185
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,520
but you would not be given a mortgage

1186
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,000
unless you have three years of operations.

1187
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,640
And with my company, latest company, only

1188
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:13,440
one year of operations, which means that I

1189
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,120
need to return to the workforce.

1190
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:16,720
So basically I need to get to work for

1191
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,040
someone else because like if you want to

1192
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,800
get a mortgage, if I want to live. And the

1193
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,040
reason like why I'm given when want to take

1194
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,160
a mortgage, why just not to rent.

1195
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,760
The prices of taking a mortgage is 2 times

1196
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,240
lower versus renting.

1197
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:30,360
And that's the difference and the market is crazy.

1198
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,640
Of course I can go to smaller village,

1199
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,280
leave Amsterdam.

1200
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,600
It's always the case.

1201
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:38,840
The problem is in the smaller village,

1202
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,000
there would be the same price, but you

1203
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,840
get more square meters.

1204
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,760
I don't need more square meters.

1205
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,920
That's the thing.

1206
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,560
So getting back, sorry, staying on track.

1207
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,840
I have to find a job basically like I have

1208
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,320
to work for someone else.

1209
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,480
I have to get a permanent contract or like

1210
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,200
a temporary contract with some things next

1211
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,800
to it to get a mortgage or to extend my

1212
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,200
mortgage.

1213
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,160
So I started my search.

1214
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,120
It was in May.

1215
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,000
I started my search in May.

1216
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,680
So I was really, you know, like I'm OK,

1217
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:09,680
I'm, I'm going to read descriptions.

1218
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:10,920
We're going to see what's there.

1219
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:11,640
So the positions I was heading for were

1220
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,560
like head of director of artificial

1221
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,760
intelligence.

1222
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,800
So I was applying for different companies. So I

1223
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,560
like choose three.

1224
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,880
I was really, you know, like picking out

1225
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,640
what I where I want to apply.

1226
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,160
I, I applied there and guess what, nothing

1227
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,040
like completely nothing.

1228
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,360
I was like, hmm,

1229
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,480
OK, maybe, you know, if we assume that a

1230
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,480
lot of recruiters and the enterprises using

1231
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,760
AI tools now, then let's use AI again to,

1232
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:31,720
to, to apply.

1233
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,640
So I generated a batch of things tailored

1234
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,400
per each use case, whatever, I send it

1235
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,000
nothing.

1236
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,480
And I was like, what I'm doing wrong? I'm

1237
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:39,560
already like, there are two weeks in the

1238
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,440
process and nothing comes out like how

1239
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,000
it's even possible.

1240
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,680
And then one smart person told me, you

1241
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:46,880
know, just take a batch and do batch a

1242
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,440
apply literally

1243
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,440
Of course you can go, we are like false,

1244
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,040
you know, who can refer you and blah, blah, blah.

1245
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,520
But do batch because in case start like

1246
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,360
treat it as a funnel and then, you know, as

1247
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,640
you go, go, go pick up.

1248
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,800
And I was like, yeah, but it's not what I

1249
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,560
wanted.

1250
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,720
That's not what I want to do Just go.

1251
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:07,440
So I create one batch dedicated to the 

1252
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,080
position of this like director, head of

1253
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:10,920
artificial intelligence, and I created the

1254
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,840
second batch for

1255
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,880
ML staff engineer or AI staff engineer

1256
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,000
or principal engineer or something like that.

1257
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,000
And I start applying.

1258
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,640
So here I started this traction.

1259
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,480
And the finest part was the first screening calls.

1260
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,800
The screen calls were like the first

1261
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,240
question in the Netherlands is what's your

1262
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:29,640
salary expectations? They usually said like

1263
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,120
put your salary expectations in the form,

1264
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,760
even in the recruitment form.

1265
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,880
That's where I were testing their

1266
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,560
front end and back end

1267
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,400
 by putting minus one, zero, 0.5

1268
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,480
You know,

1269
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:41,120
like everything.

1270
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,800
Like let's,

1271
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:43,720
let's.

1272
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:45,360
Let's try how it works.

1273
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,800
So the funniest part is I'm usually try to

1274
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,480
jump in front of this question from

1275
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,240
recruiter, because usually the first who asked 

1276
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:53,560
this question gets the better questioning 

1277
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,800
position at least at the Dutch market.

1278
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,160
Let's put in this way, although it was

1279
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,680
applying for a lot of EMEA remote

1280
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,400
positions.

1281
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,840
So I was like, OK,

1282
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,160
let's do that.

1283
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:06,040
And I usually starting OK, So what is the

1284
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,000
expected salary range like I'm asking

1285
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:08,560
specifically for range because it gives

1286
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,080
them freedom, you know, to go from where

1287
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,040
and just to show me the boundaries.

1288
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,440
So then we can discuss later like how it's

1289
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,440
gonna work.

1290
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,720
The funniest part is there was a lot of

1291
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,400
really top level positions with salary

1292
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,840
which were below like even like senior

1293
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,800
engineer positions.

1294
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:26,320
And I was like, I'm sorry, like with this

1295
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:27,440
responsibility, like why? And then

1296
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:28,400
you get really weird questions.

1297
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,680
There's like, why do you need so much money?

1298
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,040
Why not?

1299
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,640
I would, I would try to answer the

1300
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,520
question.

1301
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,040
It's like I want to donate to the Python

1302
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,240
community.

1303
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:40,720
That's why I need money.

1304
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:42,720
Come on.

1305
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,840
Like, yes,

1306
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,160
maybe, maybe that's a good question.

1307
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,240
Like good answer.

1308
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:51,400
I don't know.

1309
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,320
Like that's

1310
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,400
that's the reason people work to get money,

1311
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,320
Jesus and.

1312
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:01,800
I was like,

1313
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,440
oh, you know,

1314
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:04,840
you know, And it's like you're working free

1315
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,800
of charge.

1316
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,720
It's like, no, it's like,

1317
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:08,880
strange.

1318
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:09,320
Why should I work?

1319
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:10,120
Yeah.

1320
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,880
Yeah, they pay you by Bitcoin, No.

1321
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,720
By beautiful eyes,

1322
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:14,040
Yeah. Yeah.

1323
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:14,880
So, like, but to cut the long story short, I 

1324
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,760
ended up, like, at the end of the funnel with four 

1325
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:19,800
companies.

1326
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,320
And then I did another twist.

1327
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:22,600
When I was in the process with these

1328
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,440
companies, I was telling them directly that

1329
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,200
you are not the only one.

1330
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,360
So you know, we can play silly games and

1331
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,320
said, yes, of course, you're the only one

1332
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,360
company I ever ever dreamed to work for. Sure.

1333
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,360
Fine. Right.

1334
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,080
So I was telling them and it's really

1335
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,600
interesting to see the reaction.

1336
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,160
Some of them were like,

1337
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,360
you know, it's not good that you're saying that.

1338
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,720
I was like, yeah, I know it's not good.

1339
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:41,400
But because we are on the final stages, I

1340
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,120
want to be clear.

1341
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,640
That's like I expected

1342
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,880
offers coming in and I'm gonna

1343
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,760
surprise, surprise.

1344
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,280
I'm gonna compare the offers, surprise,

1345
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,840
surprise.

1346
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,080
And I'm gonna ask what I want, you know? So

1347
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,760
that's the thing.

1348
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,880
Company are expecting people to be like

1349
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,320
lying on Tinder right? Like I only have eye

1350
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,280
on you.

1351
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,080
Like, no, that's

1352
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,320
of course

1353
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,080
people are swiping on the time, right? Like it's

1354
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:06,840
just so funny.

1355
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,800
Sorry,

1356
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,680
continue. But then you know, the funniest parts.

1357
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:11,800
So the week
1358
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,840
one of the companies they were

1359
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,280
there was some like holidays and they

1360
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,440
basically like they dropped the ball.

1361
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:17,200
So I didn't hear anything from them like

1362
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,200
for three weeks.

1363
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,280
Now they came back to me like, oh, let's

1364
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:21,720
schedule an interview.

1365
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,680
And I was like, OK, let's schedule.

1366
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:23,440
And then I was like, oh, sorry, like please

1367
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,200
cancel the interview because I already like

1368
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:30,840
already have offers.

1369
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:31,680
Although it's a final interview, but it's

1370
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:32,760
like an interview with C level folks.

1371
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,600
I don't want to rob their of their time.

1372
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:35,440
You know that's.

1373
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,760
That's it.

1374
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,760
Beat them all.

1375
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,320
I'm sorry.

1376
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,000
No. Yeah.

1377
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:43,760
And then the question would be, you know,

1378
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,160
when they're gonna look how we lost this

1379
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:46,120
candidate at the ends they they would be,

1380
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,160
oh, we lost this candidate because of

1381
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,040
competition.

1382
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,240
No, you didn't lose this candidate because

1383
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:53,240
of competition.

1384
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,880
You lost this person because you were not

1385
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,000
responsive for three weeks.

1386
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,920
And like, I need to eat.

1387
00:42:58,920 --> 00:42:59,680
Sorry, the girls gotta eat, you know?

1388
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:00,040
Yeah,

1389
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:00,640
very interesting.

1390
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:01,200
I felt the culture of hiring is somewhat

1391
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:01,960
different.

1392
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,840
I'm in the North America and like we, I, we

1393
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,560
went through the same thing.

1394
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,720
When I apply for a job,

1395
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,440
I have to apply for like 10 different

1396
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,160
companies and maybe I get interviewed for

1397
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,800
one or two, right? And it's the same thing,

1398
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:12,560
but something's different is like, I mean,

1399
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,520
it's definitely OK for me to say, yeah, I

1400
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,000
they will ask am I interviewing for other

1401
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,400
companies? Like I will say yes,

1402
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,960
like especially if you, when you say you're

1403
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,040
hiring, you're interviewing for higher

1404
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:22,520
level position

1405
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,480
That means you know you have lots of skill, but

1406
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,080
you you can a lot of people want your skill.

1407
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,160
You can ask them, like, are you only

1408
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,400
considering one candidate? No.

1409
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,040
So yeah,

1410
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,200
why not? It's like, you know, give and

1411
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,080
take, right?

1412
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,200
Yeah, it's both ways.

1413
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,440
It's both ways.

1414
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,320
Yeah.

1415
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,520
So yeah,

1416
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,600
that's basically what I wanted to share.

1417
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,280
For me, it was really surprise.

1418
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,360
First, it was like a lot of questions like

1419
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,600
why do you need the salary? Like why do I

1420
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,280
need a salary?

1421
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,800
Come on.

1422
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,880
You, you can try asking kindergarten's

1423
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
children and they would also give you a

1424
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:05,240
very reasonable answer. You. Yeah,

1425
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,320
I mean.

1426
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:07,880
Yeah,

1427
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,000
yeah.

1428
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:10,040
And the second one is like when you're like

1429
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:10,560
get into the talk, like when you get into the ends.

1430
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:11,120
They usually also like the, the, the

1431
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,160
recruitment process is not very clear.

1432
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,720
I'm usually asking about the structure.

1433
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:16,720
And usually they don't have a proper

1434
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,920
structure for such positions.

1435
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:19,600
It goes like, oh, we're gonna have three

1436
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:20,520
interviews and that's it.

1437
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,200
And then you ended up having nine
interviews.

1438
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,040
That's the story is.

1439
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,560
It like a reality show? Yeah, yeah.

1440
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:28,520
You know, like interview from hell.

1441
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:28,920
Yeah, you, you'll be like, excuse me?

1442
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:29,480
Not the Squid Game.

1443
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,040
You have

1444
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,840
so many rounds.

1445
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,520
Yes, ladies.

1446
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,280
Yeah, that's a journey.

1447
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:36,600
I'm happy.

1448
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,000
That's like, I do hope for the right one

1449
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,480
and like we will see.

1450
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,800
I'm really impressed by like you just kind

1451
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,200
of like have the mindset of like, if I want

1452
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:42,920
to work for myself, I can work for myself.

1453
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,120
If I need a job because of the mortgage, I

1454
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:44,720
can have a job.

1455
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:45,640
I think this is a resilient that it can

1456
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,800
inspire a lot of.

1457
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,080
People, I was watching this TV show on

1458
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,000
Netflix. It's a

1459
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,200
Indonesian

1460
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:57,440
movie home sweet loan.

1461
00:44:58,720 --> 00:44:59,600
It's like also a journey

1462
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:01,920
of a woman like she wants to be independent

1463
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,000
from her family.

1464
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:03,520
She wants to have a piece for herself, a

1465
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,960
property by, you know, working for herself

1466
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,360
by like she wants to work and

1467
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,560
in order to

1468
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,400
qualify for mortgage.

1469
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,120
So like when you talk about this, it

1470
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,160
reminds me of that movie.

1471
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:15,840
Very interesting.

1472
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Well, thank you so much, Una and Cheuk.

1473
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,120
Thank you everybody for listening.

1474
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,560
Enjoy the episode and we'll talk to you

1475
00:45:21,569 --> 00:45:24,560
next time.

1476
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:51,000
Bye bye.