Hello, everyone.
New PyPodcats again. Here today.
We have, we are so excited because we have Anna
from the Django Girls Foundation to be with us.
And so you have already seen Mariatta and I'm Cheuk
and we are the host of the PyPodcats.
So for Anna, I think it's the best if you
can introduce yourself because we really want to know about
you and I don't want to miss anything.
Hi, Cheuk.
Hi, Mariatta.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.
So my name is Anna Makarudze.
I'm the current Django Girls fundraising coordinator, a
position that I've held since June 2017.
And I'm also a trustee for the Board
of Trustees for Django Girls Foundation and also
Software Engineer for Django Girls foundation since August
2020 when there was a transition in leadership.
I also support the Django Girls website and
the other resources in the GitHub repo.
So I'm kind of like the lead maintainer for the
website and also work with volunteers to maintain our resources
because the website and the tutorial in our coaches manual,
organizer manual, they are all open source.
So we work with volunteers to maintain them,
to make sure that they are kept up
to date and accessible to the general public.
Yeah, I have heard some so much like exciting
news from Django Girls like earlier this year.
So I know now we are Django Girls plus.
Yes. Yes.
It was addition that the board of trustees made
because over the years we're being asked if we
were inclusive of trans women and LGBQT.
So it was just easier to add a 'plus'
to our name without really changing our the known
name that we've had for 10 years.
As you know, we turned ten this year.
So yeah, it was a win for us.
So we, over the years we've tried to change
the language on our website to show that we
are inclusive of everyone who identifies as a woman.
So that was the idea behind the name change.
Yeah, I'm so happy to see that.
And you will be very busy and I know
you also personally have to make a big change.
You're moving country.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
So I've moved from Zimbabwe to
Sweden for my Master's studies.
I'll be studying software engineering at Blekinge
Institute of Technology in Karlskrona, Sweden.
So I left Zimbabwe on the 14th of August and I'll
be starting school on the on Monday the 2nd of September.
Are you excited?
Yes, I am.
So that's when we have our introduction day.
I get to learn more about the program, as well as
meet my classmates as well as my lecturers and professors.
So, yeah, I'm excited for that and it's been
a great change to what I'm used to.
Yeah.
Because when you.
In Zimbabwe, when you say, I want to
buy a bed, you buy a bed that
is complete, already assembled with a mattress.
But I was shocked to find out. Yeah.
You buy a bed separately and
then you buy a mattress separately.
Yeah.
And the base comes in a box
and you have to, like, assemble everything.
So I had to buy a drill.
I now have a screwdriver, and I have
I have a hammer.
Yeah, the Swedish furniture.
We know, like, we don't have to mention the
name, but if we see, let's say, like Swedish
furniture, we know you have to assemble it yourself.
That's how it works.
Yeah.
So, it was, the shock for me, I.
I thought I ordered two pieces of
furniture and I get two boxes.
It's like, oh, this is my bed. You sure?
But you are now very good with
hardware as well, so that's good.
Hardware and software, we can do everything.
Yeah.
It's really been a learning curve.
So.
Yeah.
And it took me days. Yeah.
But I'm getting there now.
So I am glad that I had time for this
because I came about two weeks earlier than when I
was supposed to start, so I had time to go
through these new changes, you know, patiently.
I didn't get frustrated because I wasn't in a rush.
Yeah.
It would have been something else if I
arrived just in the nick of time when
I was supposed to start my program.
So, yeah, it has been a good
change, but I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, that's good.
That's exciting.
Yeah, I'm glad for you.
Yeah.
Tell us more about.
You mentioned you're doing software engineer lead for
Django Girls, because I think that's really interesting.
I know the Django Girls tutorials is one
of the resources I like to share for
people who are learning Python, learning Django.
So it's really useful resources.
Can you tell us more about
this new role within Django Girls?
What do you do?
Okay, so the tutorial is a
bit separate from the website.
I normally work on the website, I'm maintaining
it, making code changes, fixing bugs, and then
I'm also in charge of deployment as well
as adding new contributors to the website.
Then with the tutorial, every now and then, I
also contribute to it, like introducing new changes.
For some time, we're offering, we added a section where
people could learn on the cloud using RunCode.
They were giving us the platform for free.
But we have since removed it.
Now because it's no longer
available, people have to pay.
So we try to make sure that
we have the things that we mentioned.
The resources that we mention in the
tutorial are free for the participants.
So because it's no longer free, we removed that.
So every now and then, if they say, I
wanted to restructure the tutorial actually, but it's huge.
So the first pull request that I did, it was a bit big.
It took time to have people review it.
What we've been trying to do is to
shorten it by making sure that if you're
on Windows, you follow Windows instructions.
If you're on Linux, you follow Linux.
If you're on iOS, on Mac, you follow Mac instructions.
But because everything is so mumbled up and it's a
long tutorial, it's difficult to do it in stages.
But at the same time, if you do
a large pull request and it takes time
without being reviewed, it gets overtaken by events.
So now I'll.
I think I'll have to start again.
But that's something that we have
wanted to do for some time.
If I can get people to work with, we would
want to do that, to separate the instructions so that
our participants are not confused by having to read through
so many notes that really don't affect them.
If you're on Windows, you don't need to know
about a note about Ubuntu or about Mac.
And the same applies to those on Ubuntu and Mac.
They don't need to know about Windows.
It would actually make it easier for
participants if they just yet to go
through what is platform specifically for them.
So that's one thing that I hope we'll be able to do.
I don't think, I'm not sure if we'll be able
to do that in 2024, but maybe in the near
future we should be able to work towards that.
I'm not sure how my schedule will be.
Like, you have a lot of work already.
Yeah, it's cross platform and also multiple languages.
It's like, wow, yeah.
And is this something that, you know,
the PyLadies community or the Django community
can help create PRs or can people
Contribute to it? Or?
Yes, it will be great.
I think what happened with Django Girls is the burnouts
did not affect the founders only, but I think most
of the contributors who worked with the founders when it
started in 2014, they also went through the burnout.
So we have fewer contributors now than
Django Girls yet, like back in 2017.
So we are always open to new contributors
coming up to work on the tutorial, work
on the website and all our other resources.
And if PyLadies, if you, they can work with us on that.
Will definitely welcome them as
well as the Django community.
Every now and then, at sprints at DjangoCon Europe.
I do attend them and I get people who contribute.
I have some regulars who contribute
only at DjangoCon Europe.
I think that will help if we add more people
from the Django community and PyLadies contributing to the
resources because I know many people use the Django Girls
tutorial to introduce people to Python and Django.
It's just that we have fewer maintainers these days.
Yeah, I think that's really good.
So maybe we can have a
sprint for the Django Girls tutorial.
Yeah, yeah, that'll be great.
Yeah.
Can you let us maybe can you share with us?
Like, how can people get started
to contribute to this project?
And do you have links or what's the best way?
All right, so for each of our
resources we have a Contributing Guide.
Oh, that's good.
On GitHub. Yeah.
So if you.
If you want to contribute to the
tutorial, there's an how to contribute guide,
contributing guide there.
If it's the organizer manual, it's also.
We also have that as well as the website.
So you can just go on GitHub, fork our
repo, whichever one you want to contribute to.
You read the contributing guide on how to set up
on your local machine and then you can also check
the issues that are already there on the repo or
if you find any issues like typos, especially in the
cases of the tutorial and our organizer manual, coach manual.
You are welcome to suggest pull requests for them.
Yeah.
So maybe after that we will collect the link from
you and then we'll add it in the episode.
Yeah, I can compile all the links for on how
to contribute to our resources and give them to you.
Yay. Thank you.
Thank you.
So, yeah, you're doing so much for Django Girls.
I know Django Girls is, like you said, it may be
the first step for a lot of people to discover Python.
So is it how you discover Python and Django?
When and how do you discover them?
Oh, so up until 2015 I had no idea there's Python.
Okay.
So I met a friend of mine who was learning,
I think he was doing Android through digital, a digital
skills program offered by Muzinda Hub in Harare.
And then he encouraged.
We worked together at one of my previous
employers and he encouraged me to apply.
So I applied and I chose Python because
I thought I was interested in data science.
I still am, but I think I
like the software development side more.
So I chose Python because it's general purpose,
you can use it for many other uses.
And that was, I think I started around March 2015.
So we're learning through Treehouse and
back then Kenneth Love was still working
at Treehouse, so he was my teacher.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was online and remote.
After, after doing Python, I did Flask, which
I used for my first project is.
Which was a portal of some sort.
And then a friend of mine,
Humphrey, introduced me to Django.
We wanted to organize a Django Girls event
in Harare for 2016 and we wanted also
to organize a PyCon in Zimbabwe in 2016.
So for me to learn Django, I used the
Django Girls tutorial and the Django tutorial themselves together.
And then, yeah, that's how I got started with Django.
Yeah, that's really cool.
So, yeah, and I, I love hearing that.
I, I feel like 2015 isn't that long ago.
It maybe long to people, like, it feels quite
recent to me, you know, and you're just learning
and already you're contributing back to the community.
You're leading the Django Girls, you know, being in
part of, you know, being involved in the DSF,
I think that's really, it's really inspiring.
So thank you for all the work you do.
Thank you.
Actually, yeah, you're right.
I think I, I started contributing to
Python and Django when I was actually
a beginner, mainly because there wasn't much.
Python wasn't very known in Zimbabwe back then and
there were no opportunities for us in Zimbabwe.
So it was.
We thought it best for the community to get together,
organize events and somewhere it led me to the DSF
and then I ended up being on the board
for five years as Director, Vice President
for two, and President for two years.
And I remember my first event was
Django Under the Hood in 2016.
I went under the Django Girls umbrella as well.
And like I felt like I am a beginner.
I couldn't understand like most of
the things they were talking about.
I couldn't understand things that are going on at Django
codes because I joined the community as a beginner and
became a leader before I had actually honed up my
skills, you know, in Python, in Django.
But it has also helped me to grow because
you let you meet people, you learn from them.
Sometimes it doesn't make sense then, but when you go
back you can go on and reflect and learn and
understand the concept that they were talking about.
I think I got involved with the community too early.
Is there something for you, like happen in your first
Django Girl that makes you feel like this is.
Feel like home to me.
I want to, you know, work more on
this project or like this, you know, initiative.
And so my first Django Girls event, I was
a coach at Django Girls Windhoek in Namibia.
It was part of PyCon Namibia 2016.
We, Daniele is always talking about this.
We traveled like 33 hours by road
to get there because the grant couldn't
cover flights for us, Humphrey and I. So.
But it was nice.
There were high school students, there were university students
and then they were more like there were other
women who were like almost my age or younger.
Then there were mature women who
were like older than me almost.
Almost like the same age as my mother, you know.
Yeah.
Who were learning Python and Django
through a Django Girls workshop.
I've worked at a university for women before.
When I was starting, I think I like, like
I like it when we create environment for women
which is welcoming, where they can learn without being
judged, you know, without being told, you know, it's
easy, you know, why can't you get this fast,
quicker and you know, learning at their own pace?
So I think after attending Django Girls Windhoek as well
as organizing Django Girls Harare for our Django Girls Harare,
which was my second event, we had like primary school
kids who were aged nine, they were youngest participants and
then we had women in their 40s, 50s and then
we had like the middle aged women.
So yeah, I think because those were like
my first events, I saw what Django Girls
was doing to women and girls.
And when I went to, when I then went to
Django Under the Hood in 2016, November, I already like
organized two Django Girls events are in Harare and Mashingui
and also attended Django Girls Windhoek in Namibia.
Then I thought we have the problem
of women being underrepresented in tech was
something that was peculiar to Africa.
In my girls, in my class when we're doing in high
school I did math, physics and computing for A level and
we two girls in our physics class out of 20.
So we're like 10% and for my degree we started
like we about 110 and we were about 10 or
11 women by the time we graduated we were around
45 to 50 and we were six women.
So I had grown, you know, used to being 10
of yeah the population because you are in STEM.
So when I went to Django Under the Hood, I was surprised
when I walked into the room for the first time and I
was like, oh, there are so many white men here.
And I could count the women who were there at
the event, you know, so then that's when I realized,
okay, so probably this is what Ola and Ola had
in mind when they started Django Girls.
And that's when I realized what Django Girls,
you know, means to the tech community globally.
Not just for me as a Zimbabwean
in Zimbabwe, but everywhere in the world.
We kind of have the same problems where we have
fewer women in tech than compared to any other field.
So I guess that's why I ended up working for them,
because the course makes sense to me even up to now.
I can relate to it.
Yeah, I totally understand because I also study physics and
my class also only 10%, and like, half of the
women who studying physics actually don't want to be there.
So it's very tough.
And I wish when I was younger, I have the same insight.
I was like, oh, maybe we should
create a space like Django girls.
But, well, now we're here.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's really important.
And I mean, even now, it's still.
Representation of women is still an issue in the.
In our community, in the Python
and Django, in open source.
Not quite there yet. So.
Yeah, but we are trying.
I know, like, there are people like you who are
trying, you know, and that's like, I think we need
more people to actually realize that this is a problem.
And it's not because, you know, there's no women. Right.
It's not because women are not interested.
We are trying. Like, we try.
But maybe there is something else that is,
you know, the environment like you mentioned, like,
maybe women are being judged more and it's
just not a safe environment. So we.
So I'm really glad to hear that there are
initiatives like the Django Girls to make it.
To make it more inclusive
and, you know, more welcoming.
But you're taking on another challenge.
You are now, like, studying overseas and, like,
you know, how does it feel for you?
You're in a new place.
And maybe also, like in the class, there isn't
a lot of people who are like you.
So, yeah, I think, honestly, I. I.
Feel so old now because.
No, never say that.
2009.
So it has taken me 15 years to pursue
a master's in software engineering, which is something that
I've wanted to do for a very long time.
I'm excited, but I'm also.
I'm looking forward to it.
I am hoping that I can manage the
pressure of being back in school again after,
you know, many years of taking a break.
I've done some courses in between, but full
time education, this is the first time that
I'm doing full time education after graduating.
So I'm looking forward to it.
It's a new challenge.
I'm waiting to see what it's going to look
like next week when I start because here they.
The way the courses are structured is different
from what I am used to in Zimbabwe.
You have a set timetable in back in Zimbabwe where
you know, I have these courses here and then like
your day, you know, your how your
timetable is going to look like for the whole semester.
But now here they do like you do two courses at a time.
Okay.
Yeah, out of four.
So I have the schedule for the first two courses.
Then we, we write exams.
We do the other two courses.
Okay.
Beginning in the middle.
Yeah.
Then you as you, you kind of like you
have few hours of lectures but they say it's.
You have to do a 40 hour week when
you left like maybe at most probably you have
like six hours, maybe 12 hours of lectures.
But you're supposed to be 40 hour weeks.
So the other study is supposed
to be either in group work.
They do a lot of group work here.
I haven't met my classmates so I don't know what's my.
All my group is still going to look like.
But you also have to like pace yourself, be organized and be
able to study on your own to make those 40 hours.
So yeah, it's going to be a new challenge.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's a very like brave like you know, kind of
jump because I know like for women, like a lot
of women, luckily I don't have that problem.
But like maybe some women, oh, they kind of take a
break from their career, you know, take care of the family
and like you know, have to start something again like back
in tech or like it's, it's a huge challenge. Yeah.
Yeah. For me. Okay.
So for me it's taking a break. Okay.
To go back to school.
But I'm still single so I
don't have a family to consider.
I think that makes it easy.
It's just a matter of holding up my residency, the
apartment that I was living in Harare and coming here
and set up another apartment for two years.
And then we see how that goes after two years.
But yeah, it was, I.
Maybe it's because the application process for to study in
Sweden, it takes a bit of some time because I
started looking at the programs in October last year.
I was hoping to get a scholarship
with the Swedish Institute, which I did.
And they opened the announcement, the programs
that they were going to fund in
the 15th of the 15th of November.
So I now knew which programs that I wanted to apply to.
And then the application closed in the
15th of January, and then deadline for
payment of application fees was one February.
And then they opened the scholarship the 12th
of February and closed the 28th of February.
So I had to wait for the admission
for the 21st of March and then wait
for the scholarship announcement the 25th of April.
So I guess with.
Through all that waiting and as well as
then after knowing and then doing the application
for the residence permit and you kind of
have time to prepare yourself mentally.
Am I going to leave the country now?
Am I going to fold things? Yeah.
By the time that you have to leave in August. Yeah.
You kind of have like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know. Yeah.
You are mentally prepared to say, okay, I'm now
living this and I'm starting a new chapter.
We'll see how it goes.
Yeah.
I'm afraid of the cold.
In the winter.
So I don't know how it's going to look like.
I've been.
I have been to the west and I think
November in 2016 in Amsterdam, but it was in.
It was cold, but it wasn't that cold.
It's very cold in February, in January and February.
And then I was in Prague for Ubuntu Summit in.
In November as well.
Early November.
Yeah, both times were early November,
so it wasn't that cold.
So I have no idea.
And I remember when I was.
When I was coming for. Yeah.
To DjangoCon Europe in June, I left Zimbabwe.
It was very warm.
Then when I got to South Africa,
it was like 14 degrees Celsius.
And like when we getting off the
plane, it was windy and cold.
And I'm like, okay, this is.
This is at a time that I'm thinking
of leaving Zimbabwe, which is like 300 days
of sun and warm, to relocate to Sweden.
And I'm struggling with 14 degrees
Celsius, something they call summer in.
In the West.
Yeah, yeah.
Because your summer.
Because the summer here is as good
as my winter in Zimbabwe, you know?
So I was like, if I really.
Another thing that I have, like, still not getting
used to maybe, probably because I live in London,
is that the snow and the slipperiness of the
floor, because we don't snow a lot in London.
Only once every few years but like every
time I remember I've been to Sweden twice.
Both of them are in the winter.
It's very cold and slippery like you have to buy
those special things to put on your boots so you
don't sleep and yeah, yeah, I haven't, I.
Haven't taken care of the boots thing
but I hope to get to it.
Yeah but people there will teach you.
And yeah, yeah, even started
regretting living Zimbabwe age.
But yeah, in terms of the weather, I
just been home so far not as cold.
So yeah, we'll see how the window goes.
Right.
What do you think is the role
of younger girls for the community?
Okay, so I think Django Girls is in
an important role in the community to close
the gender gap for within the tech industry.
We have so many men compared to women and what
we are doing is we are providing free resources for
women to organize workshops that introduce women to programming.
With Python and Django we have done two surveys software
one in 2017, 2018 and another one recently which we
haven't published the results for and but what we have
found is some of our attendees quite a good percentage
I can remember I think about was it 21% last
time it actually transitioned from their careers to working to
take in different roles.
Obviously after attending our workshop is still it won't be
enough for someone but mostly go on to learn.
You know about 7, 75% they continue learning
with learning Python, learning programming until they actually
transition to working to take in different roles.
So while it takes time for us to have
results, I think we as a community doing an
important role in introducing women to programming and having
more people women involved in tech.
So how I'm curious, how can the community
support, you know, the Django Girls Foundation?
I know your fundraising like is there active fundraising
that people can support right now or what other
ways can we support the Django Girls community?
Okay, so we are always
fundraising all throughout the year.
We welcome donations anytime.
People can reach out to me via LinkedIn or using
the Django Girls website and I can give them details
on how they can donate to Django Girls.
Also we always look for companies that can have their
employees donate their time to work on our resources.
That's something that we welcome as
well and we're always looking for.
We are hoping to have new content
and we have some projects underway.
New projects underway.
And that would be helpful if we
had partners to work with us.
We went to do a crowdfunding campaign but I
was a bit away because of the relocation and
our OSM Ambassadors was also on holiday.
We're not sure if, I'm not sure if we'll
continue with that this year or it might be
for next year but we always welcome donations anytime.
Yeah, we do have a Patreon page
that they can contribute to also.
They can sign up for monthly
donations through our Patreon page.
I can share the link as well?
Yes, please. Yeah.
If they want to be ongoing
supporters, contribute monthly with that.
We are also on GitHub sponsors, companies and individuals alike
can also sign up to support us through the.
And then we have PayPal and Stripe.
People want to donate through that.
We have set up various channels for people to donate.
I think Django Girl is a very good like initiative.
I think companies like, you know, they are maybe sponsoring
events and stuff but I think, you know, if you
want to target, you know, certain group of people in
a community, I think maybe consider Django Girls. Yeah.
Yes.
I hope we have more companies come to support us.
We've had some companies that supported us for
quite a number of years but I think
Covid sort of like upset everything and it
also did affect our sponsorship as well.
So we are hoping to get new sponsors
to continue to support our week as well.
Yeah.
So yeah, you have talked about a lot of things.
So any plans except you know, you're
setting up the crowd funding and stuff
but like anything for Django Girls.
Anything for yourself. Yeah.
Okay.
For myself I want to complete my Masters so I
hope to do that as do do that very well.
We have a three week roll call to see how you're doing.
So I hope by then I'll be doing
fine so that I, I keep my scholarship.
I think by now I know I want to work in
open source after I graduate and there's a role that I'm
aiming for that I keep checking whether they've hired, hired, hired.
So that's something that I'm targeting to get after
I complete my studies in the next two years.
And then for Django Girls we, we have a plan to
start a boot camp but it isn't quite rolled out yet.
It will start in the UK so I'm hoping that we
will be able to introduce that maybe 25, 2025 or 2026.
Instead of just giving women a one day workshop, we provide
resources for them to learn for a number of weeks and
also we are aiming for it to be flexible to cater
for women who have child care issues, you know. Yeah.
So that they can be able to participate in
their own pace and hopefully that will lead also
to mentorship and for them to get new roles.
So that's the one thing that
we have been hinting about.
Plans are just not set yet.
But yeah, that's something that we hope
to work towards in the coming years.
Yeah, that sounds interesting.
Yeah, I think that will be useful to have, like
you said, more than just, you know, one day workshop
and have a series of, you know, ongoing training.
I think that's very exciting.
I'm looking forward to learn more
about and hopefully we can help. We can help.
Especially I'm in the uk, I'm having help.
Yeah, that's really good and it's very good to
hear and thank you for sharing so many stories
with us and yeah, I think it's a very
enjoyable chat with you and know about.
Know more about Django Girls is, you
know, I always heard about the name.
I try to help out once in a while.
Not a lot, but then like now
I understand like more like, you know
about Django Girls and also interesting story.
Moving so far, far away to somewhere so cold
and you have to build your own furniture.
Yeah.
So thank you so much and thank you, Anna.
Thank you, thank you for having me.